It is not something that I noticed, but I didn’t look for it specifically
either.
Ray
On Jun 16, 2014, at 1:40 PM, John Greenly <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ray, one question: when you were observing through binocs, did you by any
> chance notice yellow feet, or see the feet clearly as showing up
> light-colored against the black undertail coverts? A quite noticeable
> feature of Zone-tailed as I remember.
>
> --John
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2014, at 1:10 PM, Ray Zimmerman wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone for the helpful discussion and sorry for my silence (busy
>> with life). Here’s a bit more information. First of all, I’ve added a few
>> more photos, of even worse quality :-/ Here’s an updated link …
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nm25xfhyarydgxg/AAAvRHHfszKtNmiLRVoy-LYWa
>>
>> To recap, with a bit more detail. I first heard the bird vocalize, and to me
>> it sounded like a completely classical red-tail sound. I quickly located the
>> bird with my naked eye (90% sure it was the same bird). I did not see any
>> other raptors or TVs in the area. I stepped inside the garage to grab
>> binoculars from the car (15 secs or so), quickly relocated the bird and
>> began observing, still assuming “red-tail”. What I noticed first was the
>> dark underside. I observed through the binoculars for a few minutes before
>> asking my wife to go grab my son’s camera. As I continued watching, it
>> vocalized again. Up until this point, I was still certain it was an
>> unusually dark red-tail. I thought that I saw red on the upper side of the
>> tail a few times, but I’d put about 50% confidence on that statement.
>>
>> When my wife brought the camera, before I began taking pictures, my view of
>> the bird was blocked momentarily by some trees. When it emerged from behind
>> the trees I began snapping pictures. I’d say I’m at least 90% sure that the
>> bird I was observing through the binoculars, that I heard vocalizing, and
>> the one I got pictures of are the same bird. I’m 99% sure there was only 1
>> bird in the area while I was snapping pictures. I.e. they are all of the
>> same bird, including the one that looks like the tail is reddish.
>>
>> I’ve seen broad-winged hawks (though not dark morph), and I’m nearly certain
>> it was not a broad-wing. The wings and tail seemed too long to me and the
>> shape and flight style just didn’t seem right either. The vocalization
>> sounded nothing like the recordings I’ve heard of broad-wings. I’ve never
>> seen a zone-tailed hawk, but that does seem to be the one that matches best
>> with what I saw. I don’t recall that I ever saw it flap, but I do remember
>> thinking that it held it’s wings in a slight V and that there was something
>> else about the way it flew that seemed “different” (helpful, right? I know).
>> The vocalization, however, sounded more classical red-tail than the
>> recordings I’ve heard of the zone-tailed hawk.
>>
>> Afterward, I was very sorry I didn’t have a better camera and that the
>> autofocus had done such a poor job on so many of my shots. I thought I’d
>> taken plenty that I’d have multiple good ones to help with the ID.
>>
>> Based on the comments and my own looking at photos, listening to sounds,
>> etc. I’m leaning pretty strongly toward zone-tailed hawk, but would love to
>> hear any further comments.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2014, at 11:32 AM, John Greenly <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have watched Zone-tailed in the SW, and they really do fly like Turkey
>>> Vultures. Everything I can see in the third picture does look very
>>> consistent with Zone-tailed (except for one thing), but if you didn't
>>> notice the flight style, it probably isn't one. The one thing is the shape
>>> of the wing trailing edge- it's a little bit bulged in the secondaries and
>>> somewhat pinched in at the body, whereas Zone-tailed usually looks very
>>> straight- see for instance the photo on the Wikipedia page of a Zone-tailed
>>> from almost the same perspective as your third picture. Was the bird
>>> flapping when you took the second picture- I would expect more dihedral for
>>> soaring Zone-tailed. I absolutely agree about the first picture- the
>>> apparent color is false, due to out-of-focus chromatic aberration.
>>>
>>> If it's a B-wing, it's doing an amazing job of disguising itself: shape
>>> and proportions don't look right at all. The tail banding pattern is very
>>> clearly visible, and not right for Red-shouldered. The sound of Zone-tailed
>>> call is more pure whistle- less screechy or scratchy- than Red-Tailed, but
>>> not so terribly different if you're not paying close attention. But, would
>>> a solitary, lost Zone-tailed be likely to be calling at all?
>>>
>>> Interesting! But I'm definitely no expert.
>>>
>>> --John Greenly
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Gary Kohlenberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ray,
>>>> I think arguments could be made for a couple species / morphs based on the
>>>> backlit photos, and I have my opinion, but as you heard the bird call my
>>>> bet would be whatever the vocalization indicates. I don’t know if you are
>>>> solid on the calls, but to my ear the Broad-winged “p-seeee” and juvenile
>>>> Red-tail squeals can sound similar. Red-shouldered Hawks sound completely
>>>> different and the unlikely Zone-tailed even more so.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: [email protected]
>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dave Nutter
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 4:32 AM
>>>> To: CAYUGABIRDS-L
>>>> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] dark red-tailed hawk
>>>>
>>>> Good point about the primary barring showing at the molt. If the slaty
>>>> color of the wing linings and underside of the body & head is true, not
>>>> just reddish which appears so dark because it's dull, backlit, and distant
>>>> (as our usual Broad-wingeds appear gray instead of pink on the breast when
>>>> high overhead), then I must admit that Zone-tailed seems possible. I think
>>>> Red-shouldered, although darker than Broad-winged, shouldn't be so
>>>> extensively dark, either. I'm just not familiar enough with Zone-tailed to
>>>> be confident.
>>>> --Dave Nutter
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Rbakelaar <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The photos seem to demonstrate barring on the primaries, more so than I
>>>> would expect on even a dark phase Broad-wing. The molted out feather
>>>> allows this characteristic to be seen somewhat well. This bird's
>>>> proportions seem to weigh against B-wing too. The wings seem long and
>>>> narrow, with only a slight bulge of the secondaries. Tail seems long as
>>>> we'll. The photos also seem to show a black body.
>>>>
>>>> Any of our resident experts care to weigh in?
>>>>
>>>> Ryan.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Dave Nutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I couldn't reconcile the red tail of photo 1 with the black and white
>>>> stripes of photo 3, even though I have seen various effects of looking
>>>> through backlit feathers. The reason I didn't say Red-shouldered Hawk is
>>>> that the white tail-band appeared too wide to me (but this may be a focus
>>>> issue, or may judgement may be wrong), and the white mark in the otherwise
>>>> even-colored primaries appears to me due to a molted missing feather on
>>>> each side, not a "window" across the primaries. The reason I said "the
>>>> only species of Buteo around here" is that Zone-tailed Hawk is way out of
>>>> range, and also is less familiar to me. My guess was that Zone-tailed
>>>> would not look so pale on the flight feathers of the wings. I am open to
>>>> correction on all points.
>>>> --Dave Nutter
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 08:28 PM, Sandy Podulka <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As you know, I'm really just a beginner at hawks...... but... What about
>>>> a Red-shouldered Hawk? It's got the white windows and the banded tail.
>>>> The reddish appearance of the tail could just be sunlight shining through
>>>> brownish feathers, which can really play tricks on the eye. It seems like
>>>> the distribution of light and dark on the underside of the wings matches
>>>> that of Red-shouldered Hawk.
>>>>
>>>> Sandy
>>>>
>>>> At 08:09 PM 6/15/2014, Ann Mitchell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Dave regarding a Broad-winged Hawk. Ann Mitchell
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 5:28 PM, Dave Nutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am NOT an authority on raptors, but that has never stopped me from
>>>> commenting before, so here's my guess:
>>>>
>>>> I think the first blurry photo looks like a dark type of Red-tailed Hawk
>>>> more typically found out west.
>>>>
>>>> I think the second and third photos are of a different bird with a feather
>>>> missing from primaries on each side. The only species of Buteo around here
>>>> with such a wide bold white stripe in the tail is Broad-winged Hawk, which
>>>> also shows a black outline to the ends of the flight feathers on the
>>>> entire wing, as seen in the third photo. However, dark-type Broad-winged
>>>> Hawks are rare, and the wing shape looks too long and rounded to me, so
>>>> I'm not at all confident. I hope someone who really knows what they are
>>>> talking about has a look at your photos and sets me straight.
>>>>
>>>> --Dave
>>>> Nutter
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2014, at 03:23 PM, Ray Zimmerman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today around 12:30pm as I stepped outside (in Eastern Heights, Ithaca) the
>>>> call of red-tailed hawk caught my attention and I quickly spotted it
>>>> circling overhead. As I grabbed my binoculars, I soon realized that it was
>>>> a very unusual red-tail (at least very different from the one’s I’m
>>>> used to seeing). As you can see from very bad photos linked below, it was
>>>> quit dark below.
>>>>
>>>> So is this a western bird, or is this just a variation I haven’t seen
>>>> around here before?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7pw5hoifjpzeey/AABcyimp4JipHTo8DwZc0r8-a
>>>>
>>>> — Ray
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
>>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
>>>> http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
>>>>
>>>> ARCHIVES:
>>>> 1) [email protected] /maillist.html'> http://www.mail-archive.com/
>>>> [email protected] /maillist.html
>>>> 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
>>>> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html
>>>>
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird:
>>>> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> Welcome and Basics
>>>> Rules and Information
>>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>>> Archives:
>>>> The Mail Archive
>>>> Surfbirds
>>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>>> ----
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> Welcome and Basics
>>>> Rules and Information
>>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>>> Archives:
>>>> The Mail Archive
>>>> Surfbirds
>>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> Welcome and Basics
>>>>
>>>> Rules and Information
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>>>
>>>> Archives:
>>>> The Mail Archive
>>>>
>>>> Surfbirds
>>>>
>>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>>>
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> Welcome and Basics
>>>> Rules and Information
>>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>>> Archives:
>>>> The Mail Archive
>>>> Surfbirds
>>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>>> Welcome and Basics
>>>> Rules and Information
>>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>>> Archives:
>>>> The Mail Archive
>>>> Surfbirds
>>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>>> Welcome and Basics
>>> Rules and Information
>>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>>> Archives:
>>> The Mail Archive
>>> Surfbirds
>>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>>> --
>>
>> --
>> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>> Welcome and Basics
>> Rules and Information
>> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> Archives:
>> The Mail Archive
>> Surfbirds
>> BirdingOnThe.Net
>> Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> --
>
> --
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> BirdingOnThe.Net
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
> --
--
Cayugabirds-L List Info:
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm
ARCHIVES:
1) http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html
2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds
3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html
Please submit your observations to eBird:
http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
--
