I am just reading through all of your posts and wanted to respond. I'd first
off like to state that when I speak to any new ColdFusion customer I tell
them about the Community and how strong, helpful and committed you are. I
also always give them the cf-talk list information and urge them to sign up.
I started with Allaire so I know the history behind this group and I have
been nothing but impressed... The community remains a focus for us and
internally we are discussing technote notifications, e-mail distribution,
and tons more. We want to hear what you would like to see us change or what
you think is working and what is not. I'm also passing this thread on to my
management as well for their review. I should add that anytime you feel you
are not being heard you can e-mail me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ) and I will pass on your opinions or
concerns. I believe Christian has also offered that as well in the past. So
let us know what you'd like to see and I can guarantee at the very least, we
will make sure you are heard.
Christine Lawson
Macromedia
From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 5:16 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: Positive Outlooks in the CF community
I think the disconnect in views here is what is thought of as "positive
thinking" in the community. I think the CF community DOES think positively
about CF as being their favorite tool. And I think it's their favorite tool
because they do see how useful it is. And cf-talk is certainly active with
people helping each other, which can also be seen as positive.
What the community is negative about is all the things they can't control
that eat away at their choice of CF. Things like:
- The software is expensive.
- Hosting is more expensive.
- Job listings for everything but CF. Yes the whole industry slumped, but
it hurt CF developers more since there were already fewer jobs available.
- MM does spend a lot of energy developing things that aren't CF. (That
doesn't necessarily equate to less CF dev, but they do do things that a
person that is only interested in CF doesn't need.)
- Dreamweaver is NOT the best CF dev tool, but it gets the development
focus.
- Few to no robust open-source CF applications. How many times have people
asked for a forum?
In that list, the last one is really the only one that the community as a
whole can do anything about. The development tool issue is also being
somewhat addressed with the Eclipse work.
And it's also worth noting that because the CF community is relatively
small, the opinions and attitudes are natually distilled and reinforced
compared to a larger, disperse community like PHP. The vitriol is going to
seem stronger to someone in Sean's position because of that.
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Johnson"
> I think Sean definitely has a point.
>
> I have seldom been a part of an online community that is less happy with
itself or its vendors (Director users are the only users who moan louder):
> The sky is falling is the tenor of most posts not about specific technical
questions.
>
> Look at all of the responses to Sean's point:
> There are no CF jobs anywhere in the world.
> Net is winning
> MM sucks.
> CF is too expensive.
>
> Not much positive there.
>
> But it is not (just) CF-Talk or CF-Community that suffers this way, it is
the entire CF development world. We are for the most part a
glass-is-half-empty crew. I think this is due to a lack of good press and a
lack of a vocal evangelist (vocal to non-converts. Ben does a fantastic job
with the converted, we just need more converted). I think it is largely
perception, or tiredness, or lack of anything FUN or SEXY as part of CF.
We've been doing the same stuff now for 5 or 6 years. There is not much we
can do that others can't. Maybe we can do it faster, but where is the extra
sizzle that you can only get through CF? Where are the smokingly cool
examples every week we can pass on to our bosses or potential clients?
>
>
> To bounce to a completely different thought, from my point of view, things
have never been better.
> Hosting of CF is cheaper and more stable than ever.
> I personally have moved 10+ sites from plain htm to cfm this year.
> I have built another 20+ using CF as a template generator and publish
to plain htm (for those who think they need the $5.00/month hosting)
> My current job was listed in the paper as a perl position. We also
hired a Java expert and 5 htm coders since then. All are now 99% Cold Fusion
in their daily tasks.
> CF Studio 5 still works fine.
> CFMX is a drastic improvement over CF5
> CF-Community rocks (the people), and the help available on cf-Talk is
as good as any other community on the web. Period.
>
>
> Jerry Johnson
>
>
>
>
_____
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