Once again, we aren't just talking about police officers here, we are talking about any agents of any level of government from the state on down. Any lawful contact is the context for the interaction, meaning that we don't care why you are dealing with the person. I really don't like that. Then there is the "reasonable suspicion" standard, which is a much lower legal standard than probable cause, which then *requires* that you verify their immigration status, when practicable.
Reasonable suspicion is bogus when a cop uses it. The Terry decision by the Supreme Court is flat out wrong, in my opinion. In the Terry case, the Court argued that an officer can briefly stop you if they have a reasonable suspicion that there is something going down. The detention must be brief and then probable cause must be established in order to go any farther. In the case of Arizona, they now extend this authority not just to trained police officers, but to anyone who is an agent of any of the government entities. And they require that you then verify their immigration status, which is not necessarily a quick and easy process like a weapons check. They are taking a huge government power grab, then pushing unfunded costs onto the state to deal with lawsuits from fringe citizenry about application of this statute. They took a bogus Supreme Court ruling and have blown it up into something even worse. There is nothing conservative about this law and I find it difficult to believe that anyone is defending it. Judah On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Jerry Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > The suing of the city has some pretty good reasons for NOT doing it. Any > suit against a city that is lost owes legal costs. That is a well > established deterrent to frivolous lawsuits. Just ask the father of the > Marine who now owes Phelps tens of thousands of dollars. > > No, any legal contact is not enough to question immigration status, > according to my reading. > > Any legal contact PLUS reasonable suspicion of illegal status (which again > is not a guess, but verifyable facts) is required to even question a > person's status. > > Any legal contact is not enough. It needs to ALSO be accompanied by > reasonable suspicion, which the police officer must be able to articulate, > or else be in violation of state and federal civil rights statutes. > > Any non legal contact, for example, stopping someone because you want to, > followed by reasonable suspicion of illegal status, is NOT a valid reason, > and must be thrown out. > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I'm down with that Jerry. If I'm driving, I should carry a drivers >> license. If I'm fishing, carry a fishing license. I just don't want to >> see the day where there is a "living license". Thats the big ol >> difference between rights and privileges. >> >> As for probable cause, I'm right there too. Which is the problem I >> have with the Arizona law. The bill says "any legal contact", period. >> That isn't probable cause, it isn't reasonable suspicion. Any agent of >> any government, be it dog catcher or cop, who has any legal contact >> can demand proof of immigration status. And there is a provision for >> ordinary citizens to be able to sue any part of the government (city, >> county, state) if they feel like they aren't doing a good enough job. >> So if Joe Schmoe doesn't think that the local school board is doing >> good enough job asking for papers from parents at a PTA meeting, they >> can sue for enforcement. Do you think that that is going to at all >> encourage the school board to ask about immigration status from any >> parents with brown skin, just to try and prevent a budget-draining >> lawsuit? >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:316695 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
