....ahem...... -----Original Message----- From: Dana Tierney To: CF-Community Sent: 8/6/03 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent....
I think that everyone who has answered you considers themselves a Christian. My personal issue is this restrictive defininition of a perfectly serviceable word, ie if you to not attend Happy Days Baptist church in Shepherd Texas you are just not a Christian. I think this sort of thinking has its base in one group trying to ompete with another group, just like the catholic churche telling women not to use birth control... tey figured they would just out populate every one else. In my view Catholics are Christians. Although a strict interpretation of my religion would require me to attempt to convert you to my particular denomination, I think that Protestants are Christians. I am using the term in it original sense of "believes that the Christ is the savior." Matthew Small writes: > What I really get out of this is that non-Christians want Christians to: > 1) Not look at them as non-Christians > 2) Believe they are going to Heaven right along with Christians > 3) Ignore the Scripture as it has been taught throughout the ages in favor > of a "feel-good, do what makes you happy" interpretation. > > Gosh, if the above is true, then what is religion for? > > "there are some (not all) sects of Christianity that believe that if you're > not in the > same sect/franchise/denomination/whatever (never mind whether or not > you're a Christian) you're going to hell. 'course we can't fault them > for their beliefs I suppose...guess they found the section of the bible > they wanted to uphold..." > > So which parts of the Bible do you subscribe to that lets you go to Heaven > without believing in God? > > Most of the world is religious to one extent or the other. Somebody > somewhere has a different religion than mine and therefore I will go to > their version of Hell when I die. That's fine with me. I'm not going to > make them accept Jesus (although I believe they should). I'm not going to > tell them that they need to pick a leader who doesn't support their core > beliefs when that opportunity arises. I'm just going to practice my own > faith, as you should practice yours or lack of faith and let them be. > > Like I said before, there is a distinct anti-Christian feel to this group, > it comes up often, but not from other members of religious organizations, > but from distictly non-religious people. > > I don't have any problem with people believing what they want to believe. > Why do you? I'll practice my religion, you... do whatever. > > Matt Small > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William H Bowen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > > outside > > > of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > > problem > > > > Oooo, and this brings up a personal favorite of mine...> > > ...nice... > > > > or how about those Christians that believe Catholics are going to hell, > > too? Aren't Catholics Christians as well? > > > > will > > > > Matthew Small wrote: > > > > >It's obvious you don't get it at all - wait a minute, maybe you do. > > > > > >Absolutely, it's the whole idea about Christanity - that if you're > outside > > >of the religion, you're going to Hell. I don't understand what the > problem > > >is with this. Either you subscribe to the religion, or you don't. Those > > >that do subscribe are forgiven and go to Heaven. Those that don't > subscribe > > >to the religion are not forgiven and go to Hell. There is no two ways > about > > >it, there's no "forgiveness because he's a good person at heart", no > > >in-betweens, no exceptions. Obviously, there are people within the > religion > > >who commit bad sins, heinous crimes, hold grudges, hate others. > Everybody > > >points the finger at others for their crimes and sins and ask for > > >retribution. Fortunately, Christians know to also look at themselves and > > >ask for the forgiveness for their sins (including judgement of others) > that > > >Jesus Christ gave to us when He died on the cross, and we do try to live > the > > >right life. > > > > > >It appears to me that you're saying that the greatest fault with the > church > > >is the judgement of fellow man. It is a failing, but don't forget the > fact > > >that the ultimate judgement comes from God, and either you're with Him or > > >against Him. > > > > > >Matthew Small > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:56 PM > > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>I have been to many, many churches. They are all about the same. Most > very > > >> > > >> > > >nice. But the gossip, backstabbing and petty hate has been an integral > part > > >of all the ones I've spent any time in to date. And it is always the > church > > >elders and "VIP"s that are the worst offenders. Note, however, it is > seldom > > >the priests (at least not in my hearing). > > > > > > > > >>I don't think that the people should be perfect. But if they point their > > >> > > >> > > >finger at me (or others) and say - You are not following the LAW, then > they > > >should be willing to look at themselves at the same time, and see how > their > > >actions fall within their own rules. > > > > > > > > >>Most of these churches I have been to have a very active "other" > barrier. > > >> > > >> > > >They are very tolerant of those inside the barrier, but do not allow the > > >same kind of human foibles to those outside the barrier. The same action > > >from one within their group is treated as a forgivable sin, but if done > by > > >someone outside, "they're going to hell". Fortunately the barrier and > > >reasons for it move from group to group, so most people can find a group > > >just like them (as you say "personality is more like"). But the very > > >existence of that kind of thinking is at odds with the basic teachings of > > >all these churches, IMHO. > > > > > > > > >>You say this issue about the Bishop is not about hate. It is about hate. > > >> > > >> > > >Not everyone. Those who just disagree, even enthusiastically, are great. > > >Differences of opinion are great. That's why there is more than one > church. > > >People who think this guy is the worst thing to come along since the > > >Inquisition have every right to their opinion. Heck, even those people > who > > >are calling in the death threats have the right to their opinion. Just > not > > >to act on it. > > > > > > > > >>The coverage I have seen (TV, Radio, Internet) have shown that many of > > >> > > >> > > >those in the "against" camp are of the witch-burning variety. Many of > them > > >hold high positions in the Anglican Church. That is what I find sad and a > > >little bit funny. They don't see that their very actions are > diametrically > > >opposite of what they say they are fighting for. And they guy they are > > >fighting against seems to be better at what they say they are fighting > for > > >than they are. Funny. > > > > > > > > >>I do think most Christians (since they fall in the "most people" > category) > > >> > > >> > > >are selfish, self absorbed, and quite capable of not only hating, but > actual > > >being proud of hating. > > > > > > > > >>I also never said their (our) religion was invalid. I think its great. > And > > >> > > >> > > >I hope that someday they will _follow_ it a little more. > > > > > > > > >>Jerry Johnson > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/06/03 12:32PM >>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>I would say that your church is in the minority, and that you don't go > to > > >>church enough, and that you need to find a church where you feel that > your > > >>personality is more like those of the congregation. > > >> > > >>I love my church, I have a good time going, and I don't find most people > > >> > > >> > > >to > > > > > > > > >>be hypocrital, just human. It sounds as though you expect all of your > > >>church goers to be practically perfect - that just isn't so. If you > > >>subscribe to tolerance, don't be bothered by what others do, just live > the > > >>right life yourself. > > >> > > >>Take a minute and listen to what the bible-thumbers have to say in it's > > >>entirety, and you'll realize that it's not about hate at all, it's about > > >>different opinions than yours regarding some issues. Not to say that > > >> > > >> > > >there > > > > > > > > >>is not hate, but it's mostly not. > > >> > > >>It sounds like your opinion of your church leads to you think that most > > >>Christians are people filled with hate and therefore their religion is > > >>invalid. How's that for intolerance? You're blaming an entire religion > > >> > > >> > > >for > > > > > > > > >>the problems that you have your your church. I'm sure that you don't > know > > >>the people that I go to church with. They are the nicest group of > people > > >>that I've ever had the chance to be affliated with. > > >> > > >>Matthew Small > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Jerry Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:01 PM > > >>Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>First off, I am a Christian. Methodist to be precise. > > >>> > > >>>But I don't often go to Church. > > >>> > > >>>I find that the Church, and most of those who practice the Christian > > >>> > > >>> > > >>religions, somewhat hypocritical. (And I do know this is an insult.) > > >> > > >> > > >>>They preach love and tolerance, but seldom practice it. And don't > really > > >>> > > >>> > > >>try too hard. Nor feel bad about it when they don't. They tend to be > > >> > > >> > > >really > > > > > > > > >>good haters. And if you don't toe the line exactly as they define it > (and > > >>there are hundreds of lines, all drawn in different places) you are a > bad, > > >>bad person, and deserve all you get. > > >> > > >> > > >>>As for this guy, I truly don't care one way or another. If his > > >>> > > >>> > > >>congregation is for him, that's what matters to me. Intellectually. It > > >>doesn't really matter to me at all in the overall sense. But I do get > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
