So, if passed from parents then ESL may have a genetic component which means that nobody truly has control over their own personal ESL status, "you're just born that way." I suppose that there is a certain logic to admitting that ESL status may be inherited environmentally but, the vast majority of these cases may yet prove to have a preexisting genetically determined ESL preference.
^_^ will Kevin Graeme wrote: >Or that it's congenital. :-) > >Just thought it was funny the way Deanna used "ESL" in a way that >reading it could make it sound like an affliction. And then I was >thinking about communicability and passing things on to others, and how >we learn language mostly from our parents. And then of course, the fact >that communicable and communicate are both from the latin >communis/communio for shared/sharing. > >Unfortunately, explaining a joke just isn't as funny. > >-Kevin > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:13 AM >>To: CF-Community >>Subject: RE: Re: Re: Re: Exciting.... >> >> >>Meaning that it can be communicated? :) >> >> >> >>>Watch out! ESL is communicable. >>> >>> >>>-Kevin >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 7:07 AM >>>>To: CF-Community >>>>Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exciting.... >>>> >>>> >>>>All right, I can see your point. But, I'm still not sure >>>>I >>>>agree with it. I think a lot of the reason people focus >>>>on >>>>language skills is that it's an easy way to cover up our >>>>xenophobia. And, as much as I hate to, I'll be the first >>>>to >>>>admit that I find it more difficult to work with someone >>>>who >>>>has ESL. But, I also think that someone that has ESL >>>>brings a >>>>lot to the table as far as fostering respect for >>>>diversity. >>>>The person in question has stated that English is not his >>>>first language. To be fluent in a two languages speaks to >>>>this person's intelligence. I strongly doubt he's some >>>>stupid >>>>guy who blundered his way into the position. >>>> >>>>-Deanna >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 4:28 PM >>>>Subject: RE: Re: Re: Re: Exciting.... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>No, just the language. The reason being that language >>>>> >>>>> >>>>skills directly >>>>affect his job as an administrator, i.e. the ability to >>>>communicate. That's what an administrator needs -- strong >>>>communication skills -- beyond which, if he's not >>>>superbly >>>>proficient in math or science he can communicate with his >>>>staff to answer pertinent questions for subjects in which >>>>he's less proficient (i.e. should our schools be teaching >>>>x >>>>scientific principal). Granted that he claimed a large >>>>part >>>>of the problem lied in punctuation, which doesn't need to >>>>be >>>>test-accurate on a day-to-day, "send a memo" basis. But >>>>that >>>>ties into my second problem. He earns 6 figures. That's >>>>too >>>>much money to spend on someone who's less than "the best" >>>>at >>>>what he does for a living. And yes, I'll admit my reason >>>>for >>>>saying that has partly to do with my being bitter about >>>>my >>>>own finances. >>>> >>>> >>>>>How many people on this list are earning 6 figures >>>>>(USD) and at the >>>>>same >>>>> >>>>> >>>>time don't consider themselves at the top of their >>>>professional field? >>>> >>>> >>>>>Is that a hand I see back there... no back there in the >>>>>far back of >>>>>the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>auditorium, there on the 2nd balcony near the >>>>fire-exit... >>>>yep... the superintendant. :) >>>> >>>> >>>>>Isaac >>>>> >>>>>Original Message ----------------------- >>>>>And, should he also have a high level of proficiency in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>math, science, >>>> >>>> >>>>>social studies and history? How about art or shop, or >>>>>home >>>>> >>>>> >>>>ec? <---I'm >>>>sure >>>> >>>> >>>>>there's some more PC term for those last two. >>>>> >>>>>I'm not sure that a superintendent, who does no actual >>>>>instruction, >>>>>should have to have the same skill sets as the teachers >>>>>who are >>>>>actually teaching the subject. I'm sure I couldn't >>>>>possibly pass a >>>>>test that a high-school math teacher would. But, I >>>>>might be a darn >>>>>good adminstrator. >>>>> >>>>>Okay, I would completely suck at being an >>>>>administrator. But, I'm a >>>>>bad example. >>>>> >>>>>-d >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:40 PM >>>>>Subject: RE: Re: Re: Exciting.... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I dunno ... maybe I'm just not good at "suffering >>>>>>fools" (the >>>>>>definition >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>of fool of course always being a subjective personal >>>>> >>>>> >>>>definition), but >>>> >>>> >>>>>I think in order to be getting a salary of 6 figures as >>>>>a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>government >>>> >>>> >>>>>paid school administrator, you'd better damn well have >>>>>a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>pretty adept >>>> >>>> >>>>>command >>>>> >>>>> >>>>of >>>> >>>> >>>>>the national language. If you're earning 6 figures >>>>>doing something >>>>>else that's not education or language related >>>>>(translator for >>>>>instance) like construction, etc. I don't care -- but >>>>>I'd >>>>> >>>>> >>>>like to know >>>> >>>> >>>>>that when the government pays someone a salary well in >>>>>excess of 3x >>>>>what I've ever made >>>>> >>>>> >>>>in >>>> >>>> >>>>>a year to make sure that kids get taught English, I >>>>>want >>>>> >>>>> >>>>that person's >>>> >>>> >>>>>command of the language to be _indomitable_. >>>>>(exaggerating for >>>>>emphasis of course -- although it's true he makes more >>>>>than 3x what >>>>>I've ever made). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Original Message ----------------------- >>>>>>er...does not correspond to idiomatic English >>>>>> >>>>>>Dana Tierney writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Well it seems to me that if his English was all >>>>>>>that broken he >>>>>>>would >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>not >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>have made it to superintendant. There are a good >>>>>>>many fluent or >>>>>>>native English speakers, possibly including me, who >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>could not pass >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>a test on formal grammar in English, because we >>>>>>>have not had to >>>>>>>learn it. Are >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>you >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>really clear on when to use me and when to use I? >>>>>>>The "correct" >>>>>>>answer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>does >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>correspond to idiomatic English. Same thing with >>>>>>>which and that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>However, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>if the guy has been suspending teachers over this >>>>>>>and he can't >>>>>>>pass it himself, that smells of hypocrisy unless >>>>>>>this is one of >>>>>>>those mandated tests we are seeing so much of. >>>>>>>Personally I am >>>>>>>opposed to high-stakes testing, especially for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>children, but this >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>is just another instance of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>its >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>idiocies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Mind you you get no argument from me on the quality >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>public schools >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>even >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>the best are far more concerned with keeping >>>>>>>students' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>behavior in >>>>line >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>than they are in academics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dana >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Heald, Tim writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The guy said he had problems with the rules of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>English, because >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>was >>>> >>>> >>>>>his >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>second language. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I don't want him in charge of my son's school >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>district. This is >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>why >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>my sons >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>will both be attending private schools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Timothy Heald >>>>>>>>Information Systems Specialist >>>>>>>>Overseas Security Advisory Council >>>>>>>>U.S. Department of State >>>>>>>>571.345.2235 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:55 PM >>>>>>>>To: CF-Community >>>>>>>>Subject: Re: Re: Exciting.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I don't think not passing the test means he is >>>>>>>>incompetent I >>>>>>>>think >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>it >>>> >>>> >>>>>means >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>the test isnt measuring what it is supposed to >>>>>>>>measure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Dana >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>s. isaac dealey writes: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>How does an incompetent person get a 6 figure >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>government job? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Original Message ----------------------- >>>>>>>>>Hmm, it ought to kill the superintendent, not >>>>>>>>>you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>Well, his >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>job anyway... /Ben >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>This kills me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/03/superi> >>>> >>>> >>>ntendent.test.ap/index.h >>> >>> >>>>>tml >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>~~~~~~~~~~~| >>>Archives: >>>http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 >>>Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. >>>cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 >>> >>> >>>Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up >>>with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. >>>http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> >>> >>http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/uns >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> ubscribe.cfm?user=633.558.5 >> >> >> >> >>s. isaac dealey 972-490-6624 >> >>team macromedia volunteer http://www.macromedia.com/go/team >> >>chief architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to >> >>onTap is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/ontap >> >> >> >> >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. 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