think it's worth a shot -- I realize it may not change the landscape
of the world, but in failing that it might make a difference for a few
people in need... and we can always hope that it surpasses our
expectations.
> You are not necessarily getting snide remarks. The
> question is, that it is
> perceived to be much larger a problem than just the
> movement of jobs offshore,
> where creme d'la creme students are graduating from
> engineering universities
> funded in large part by US firms such as IBM and
> Microsoft. Neither of these
> companies are investing that much in the US and the US
> employees are paying the
> price.
> There is no shortage of IT talent in the US, whether it be
> native born,
> immigrant or via H1B visas. The bottom line that the
> bean counters are looking
> at is the lower cost of labor. After all it is US talent
> in creating the
> technology of communications that even made it possible
> for the businesses to
> move their jobs offshore.
> I do not know what it would take to reverse the trend or
> if, at this point a
> reversal is even possible. I know of one corporation just
> this past week who
> had 12000 Dell Computers on order, and summarily cancelled
> the entire order,
> advising them that the reason was due to Dell moving so
> many tech jobs off
> shore, and they were not willing to deal with non-English
> speaking or EASL
> support people when they wanted or needed support. What
> they are doing now is
> hiring local techs and setting up their own mini-factory
> to assemble the
> products in-house in order to fulfill a major contract
> with a school district.
> They may be taking a lower profit on the contract, but I
> applaud their sense of
> business ethics.
> There are news reports that India is graduating thousands
> of engineers yearly,
> people who are highly intelligent, and motivated to
> excellence. The wages these
> people will earn "out of the box" will be in the
> neighborhood of $500.00
> monthly, which is more than double the average income for
> professionals, but
> less than one-sixth of what their counterparts are earning
> in the US. There are
> reports that H1B visa holders are finding it a better deal
> to return home and
> seek employment there. A US based employee, whether they
> be native American,
> native born, immigrant or even H1B visa, are paying US
> taxes and assisting in
> supporting the economy of the US, something that is not
> happening when off-shore
> employees are hired. Included in the definition of
> disadvantages is not just
> the American Indians, but all that are unemployed due to
> their jobs being farmed
> our overseas, never to be returned.
> Part of the problem is the recruiters, and part is the
> incessant chase for the
> bottom line, without regard to the overall effect it is
> having on the country as
> a whole. This brings Corporate and personal greed into a
> new light.
> As Mikey said, I will vote for the one who will halt the
> export of technology
> and technology jobs.
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "S.Isaac Dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:48 PM
> Subject: RE: Who I'm voting for
> | > Uhh...where does the money which the companies that
> | > farm out to India make in profit go?
> |
> | The comment wasn't about the money made in profit for
> the companies
> | that are farming out the work -- the comment is about
> the money being
> | made by the companies getting the work farmed out to
> them. Money moves
> | in both directions.
> |
> | Which is rather -- the whole point of the discussion in
> the first
> | place -- so your question applies as equally to Mike's
> original email
> | as it does to mine.
> |
> | > The fact that American Indians would be more poorly
> | > trained than their Indian counterparts is a huge Con,
> | > and one which would most likely bust the idea.
> |
> | Who says they'd have to be poorly trained in comparison?
> A great lot
> | of the people I know working as web applications
> developers _today_
> | have no more than a fast-track-to-coldfusion class under
> their belt,
> | _if_that_. A good friend of mine doesn't even have that
> -- he's got a
> | GED and a massage therapy license and is earning nearly
> 6 figures
> | subcontracted to the water department in Vegas.
> Admittedly, he may be
> | an exception, but I still know rather a lot of people
> working in this
> | industry with little or no education. I'm a GED graduate
> myself for
> | that matter.
> |
> | > Perhaps the American Indians could be urged to take
> | > a look at the world market and the skillsets required,
> | > and train in those skillsets as the Indians have done.
> |
> | Ummm... how much of what I wrote did you read? ...
> Forget that the
> | American Indians are likely by and large in worse
> financial condition
> | than those overseas (and therefore less able to pay for
> training),
> | that was rather a large part of my point -- to help them
> train in the
> | skillsets people are looking for.
> |
> | Or perhaps I should just stop trying to help people
> _at_all_ if all
> | I'm gonna get for my troubles is snide remarks.
> |
> | > -Gel
> |
> |
> | > -----Original Message-----
> | > From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> | > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:44 PM
> | > To: CF-Community
> | > Subject: Re: Who I'm voting for
> |
> |
> | > PRO:
> |
> | > 1) The money stays in the US and benefits some of our
> most
> | > economically depressed citizens. Business trips when
> | > desirable are
> | > also less expensive.
> |
> | > 2) American Indians by and large speak English rather
> than
> | > English-ASL, which will mitigate communication gaps
> and
> | > errors in
> | > translation.
> |
> | > 3) The US Government offers financial assistance in
> the
> | > form of grants
> | > and I believe some loans to minority businesses.
> |
> | > CON:
> |
> | > 1) American Indian workers are probably still slightly
> | > more expensive
> | > than workers on the Indian sub-continent.
> |
> | > 2) American Indian workers will likely require more
> | > training. I'm
> | > banking on their being eager learners. :)
> |
> | > 3) Some reservations may not have pre-existing
> | > infrastructure to make
> | > remote networking easy.
> |
> | > I'm not saying it's a complete solution to anyone's
> | > problems. I do
> | > think the idea deserves attention, possibly even
> | > legislative
> | > attention.
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> | >
> |
>
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