Mark 14:
55The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
This was after they had captured Jesus and right before they put him on the cross. The Sanhedrin are "The supreme council and court of justice among the Jews" - from the New Advent Catholic Encylopedia
Let me just state for that record that I am not anti-semitic nor am I holding any living person responsible for the death of Jesus Christ.
- Matthew Small
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Graeme
To: CF-Community
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's "THE PASSION"
Sorry, I should have made clear that I don't know whether that bit in the
bible is a victim of translation, revisionist history, or if it's correctly
translated and Vatican II is engaging in revisionism. I was asking the
question before because I don't know but I know it's within the realms of
possibilty based on things I know about translation and the study of
religions.
<cf_speculation>
It is possible for entire sections to be, if not mistranslated per se,
misinterpreted. Many of the concepts are presented in such a way that they
are rife with cultural interpretation. When referring to the "chief
priests", what does that mean? Are they actually jewish priests? Are they
roman priests, but maybe that was lost in understanding? Are they jewish
slaves who the romans used as their figureheads to control the jewish
population and they are given the title of "chief priests" by the romans?
Take the latter. One reference to a roman installed "chief priest" here or
there and a translator's approach to later sections will be skewed based on
that misunderstanding.
</cf_speculation>
<cf_sociology>
It's also interesting to look at the cultural background of the political
necessity of a christ figure. At the time, the Caesar was god. Perhaps
self-appointed, but culturally that was his position. There were also many,
many jewish tribes/sects/groups what have you. There was particularly a
differentiation of city and country jewish communities. The jewish people as
a whole were trying to come up with a way to get out from under the romans.
They needed an alternative to the Caesar. But they were also fighting
amongst themselves for power, just as people in the city today have
different social needs than people in the country. I've read accounts of
many viable christ figures that came out of the jewish communities, but the
personage of Jesus as a diametrical opposite to the rich, wealthy, powerful
and ruthless Caesar was the one that history remembers and was eventually
documented in the bible. Documented of course by the ones who put him in
power.
</cf_sociology>
I'm just stringing together things I've read years ago and suppositions
based on that. They provide a viable enough context for me to see the
Vatacan II pronouncement as credible as any of the religious history. But
I'm not a believer. If anything these days, I'm an armchair scholar.
So my only question is, if intellectually there's enough reason to cast
doubt on the story, why stick steadfastly to a story that justifies some
people's hatred of some other people?
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Small" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's "THE PASSION"
> OK, that's a single word, but are there entire sections of text which are
mistranslated so that it appears that Jews are responsible for the death of
Jesus rather than some other group - the Romans, perhaps? Like Brob, I'd
always thought it was the Romans alone who put Jesus to death, but then I
started reading the Bible.
>
> Matthew 26:14-16
> 14Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief
priests 15and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to
you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16From then on Judas
watched for an opportunity to hand him over.
>
> John 18:12-13
> 12Then the detachment of soldiers with its commander and the Jewish
officials arrested Jesus. They bound him 13and brought him first to Annas,
who was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, the high priest that year.
>
> I'm not holding anybody today responsible for the death of Jesus, but the
Bible does say what it says. Are you saying that these passages are
incorrect?
>
> -Matthew Small
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Dinowitz
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 3:12 PM
> Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's "THE PASSION"
>
>
> Sorry, the actual word is Michashefa, which is the feminine form used in
the
> particular place. Its from the root Kishuf.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Dinowitz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Mel Gibson's "THE PASSION"
>
> > I can document it with a single word. Michushef. This Hebrew word has
a
> > meaning of sorceress or witch. i.e. one who uses impure forces to
affect
> > reality. A type of magic basically. Because of the way Greek is, the
word
> > they used was basically one who uses herbs or poisons which was
translated
> > later on as poisoner and on and on. King James has it as witch, which
> pisses
> > off the modern pagans.
> > What the word is and what it has become and is becoming over time and
due
> to
> > 'popular' input shows exactly how the Christian Bible has changed.
Yes,
> the
> > original Greek is the original Greek, but who here reads that? We all
read
> > the English.
> > A change in a word can be a change in the entire story. Take my
comment
> > about the last supper not being able to be the Passover Seder. That
was
> > probably added later in a translation.
>
>
>
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