Well of course i'm right? are you mad to even consider that i'm not? keep things in perspective here people :)
Actually, frameworks + tools is a good fit, all my points really are about balance. Yes you can write a framework with note pad and lots of time etc, yet I'm guessing folks here like to see movies, girls/guys, family, whatever blows your hair back - instead of sitting in a cramped seat until 3am praying you make the 10am meeting deadline that some ass said you had to make to show off the code you needed to show.. For example, in CF I hated writing the DAO layer and still do. Yet given that the CFEclipse wasn't my cup of tea and Dreamweaver was (Hey Spike left due to death by a 1000's cuts as despite the "community" speech, the "community" also beat the crap out of the CFEclispe team as to "when are you going to fix that bug!!!" ..to which one should reply "..here's the source code, you fix it!").. so I opted for a product called Codesmith. Codesmith is really geared towards the .NET folks but it can be used and has been used for CF'ers. You can spit out a BO/VO/TO CFC through to CRUD in one play button that feeds off a SQL table if you wanted to... It's quite a powerful tool.. So you can have both your framework of choice but you can LEAN on the tools to make your life easier. That's what this pitch was about, in that build a framework but if your only reason to build it is because you have a crap tool that you can't lean on - then consider two things: Look outside the Adobe bubble to see how others do it. Ping Adobe and say "Gimme xyz in Tool or i'll dump you for Barnes's .NET" Be a man/woman.. stand up for yourself or i'll steal your minds with my .NET Jedi Mind Tricks :) (thats the last time I drink beers and post on CFAussie i swear). On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:12 AM, CyberAngel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > LoL….. > > > > I am cursing you already for pre-warning me J > > > > Seriously though, Scott is right. Except he should have mentioned any > developer, and not just Coldfusion developers. I have some code that I have > to fix that I did not write and I can tell you by the time I am finished I > am either going to be bald or at the worst go gray. > > > > Oh well the joys of the jobJ > > > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On > Behalf Of *Mark Ireland > *Sent:* Friday, 27 June 2008 7:06 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* [cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns > > > > I think Scott's point is well made. > > I am trying to skip the painful stages on the Developer (Object Warrior) > ->. . ... -> Developer path, by writing a simple, generic controller that is > useful for everything from the slightly-more-complex-than-usual job to the > way-more-complex-than-usual job. I only hope that whoever inherits it will > not curse me :-) > > I am starting with conventions for the controller cfc name, preserving > state and using the idea that the existence of a variable means one thing > and its value (if any) means something more specific. > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:04:01 -0700 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CFC Design Patterns > > Developers typically are pattern experts, they identify a problem and seek > a solution that conforms to a pattern that suites them. The more patterns > you absorb, dissect and recycle the more you continue to innovate and as > such the bar or baseline form where you once were has moved. > > Ask any coldfusion developer on this list and get them to show you code > they wrote in 1998 vs. today and they'll throw statements like "oh yeah, > it's bad, but now I'm better" – some declare this the magic of "learning" or > "with age comes wisdom", yet what's really happened here? > > Firstly each developer goes through this growth pattern, as once they can > separate the difference between "IS-A" and "HAS-A" they in turn begin to > appreciate the ideas associated with OO programming. I remember watching the > entire CF industry react to CF 5's existence, with guys like Sean Corfield > constantly pushing the various folks within the industry to embrace OO and > stop writing stupid solutions (thinking on it, Sean has done a lot for CF). > > Once OO has been discovered, they eventually move onto Framework > appreciation stage. They typically will first road test someone else's code > or many of them, that is until they get weary of following behind someone's > tail lights and decide to write their own. "I could do this a little better > is what echoes through their minds..In that deep dark secret area.." > > They begin to write, they'll most likely hand out or get their peers to use > it, but overall they still haven't discovered fully the design patterns > approach to frameworks (Methodology vs. Frameworks). That is until they > decide to research how Java folks do xyz or maybe even .NET (choose your own > muse). This is when the design patterns begin to creep into the > conversation, and before you know it they are reading Martin Fowlers J2EE > Design Patterns catalogue which is freely available online. > > Now they have true religion… this is the scariest but most necessary part > of a developer's career. This is where they'll happily embrace the idea of > writing 115 Lines of Code to write Hello World, as in the end this is about > abstraction and separation of unnecessary tightly coupled objects or domains > for the greater good of that which is design patterns. > > What was the problem being solved again? Who cares, did you not see how I > wrote this kickarse observer pattern in my collections/structs? > > This is when the senior developer in the room needs to step up, assess the > situation and take the design pattern pup under his/her wing. It's time they > showed them the path to immortality, the path in which you daily use a > framework + design pattern but do so in a way that you don't think. As this > is when you eventually will lead into the path of learning the one > fundamental lesson of all. > > The best code written is the code you don't write. > > You may lose a job or two in the process of getting to this point, but > you'll eventually figure out fast that 115 lines of code may win you a prize > for pure OO solutions being delivered, but writing hello world in 2 lines > lets you ship faster. > > Developer (Object Warrior) -> Snr Developer (Framework Fan) -> Programming > Analyst (Design Pattern Zealot) -> Architect (Field Commander) -> Developer. > > The cycle is brutal but necessary. > > *Still want to write a framework?* > > > > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 3:41 AM, Kevan Stannard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Hi Adam > > Head First Design Patterns is a great book, but if you are quite new to OO > concepts then it may be a bit of a difficult read. The examples are in Java > so basic exposure to the language would certainly help. To get the most out > of it you should first have an understanding of OO concepts such as > inheritance, interfaces and abstract classes (and their syntax in Java). > > You might also like to have a look at Brian Rinaldi's OO resource list. > There are a couple of presentations referenced there (Matt Woodward, Sean > Corfield) that might get you off to a good start. > > > http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog/index.cfm/2006/7/18/Objects-and-Framewor > ks--the-Big-Resource-List > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf > Of Adam Chapman > Sent: Thursday, 12 June 2008 3:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [cfaussie] CFC Design Patterns > > Hi All, > > I am looking at re-vamping the way I build cfcs and want to move to a > more OO approach.. I have recently started using coldspring and am after > pplz thoughts on their favoured design pattern and how best to organise > cfcs.. > > Any feedback or links appreciated.. > > Regards, > Adam Chapman > > Portplus > www.portplus.com > T: 03 9800 7777 > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Scott Barnes > http://www.mossyblog.com > > > ------------------------------ > > at CarPoint.com.au <http://carpoint.com.au/> It's simple! Sell your car > for just $30 > <http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F859641&_t=762955845&_r=tig_OCT07&_m=EXT> > > > > > > > -- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.mossyblog.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. 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