Correction Duane Nicholl, must make sure I'm awake before applying fingers to keyboard ;)
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Rae Buerckner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Point is Scott this is a CF list, it is not a .NET list, or any other > language for that matter. It would be more appropriate if you started your > own list if you want to push or discuss .NET or any other language. If this > conversation were going on on the LiveCycle list, you would have received a > do not spam this list email from a very angry Duane Burchell by now. > > R > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Rae Buerckner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >>> :) good to see that you still respect something that does indeed command >>> respect. >> >> >> I've been using CF since its birth, don't go there :) I know its >> weaknesses and strengths just like other CF Vetrans ;) I use it's still >> fun, I've invested over a decade into it so I know every nook and corner >> right down to the metal and as the old motto goes "if it aint broke, don't >> fix it". I know .NET, PHP, JAVA, ROR as well.. I'm also studying COCOA + >> CARBON atm but lets not go there.. point is, snap out of it and go learn >> some more technologies or you'll end up insulated from the evolution of >> code. >> >> >>> >>> >>> I've just had a big argument with an open source addicted friend of mine >>> about CF8 and it's award winning respectability as middleware in an SOA >>> environment. He wants to use PHP as middleware, even when I said I'd bundle >>> a CF Enterprise license in with his technology stack for free. Some people >>> are just soooo closed. CF8 plays nicely with MS products and should be >>> looked on as a friend more than a foe. That being said I respect .NET, but >>> will always go with CF8 or 7 for that matter over .NET, particularly now >>> with the time to market differences and significant saving in $'s on >>> development hours. >> >> >> blah blah ...Be a student of software, not brand (don't care if you like >> Microsoft or hate it, it doesn't bother me either way) - :) >> >> >>> >>> >>> Now please and I do say this out of respect, can we not talk .NET in this >>> list, it's not productive and does nothing to foster healthy conversation >>> and nuturing of upcoming CF developers. >> >> >> Oh dear, here we go.. brand politics 101 :) >> >> 1) You're assuming CF is in a fragile state, so what you're doing right >> now is actually doing more harm then good. As you're projecting the >> assumption that .NET is hot on the heals of stamping out .NET and that a >> forum like this is in a fragile state as well. People don't flock to .NET >> because of a mailing list, generally the motivations behind a technology >> adoption go way beyond "naming it outloud" or discussing it's various >> pieces, there's a lot to be learned from both parties on various problems.. >> be a student of software, not brand. >> >> 2) We didn't talk about .NET we talked about Tools + Framework and we >> looked at various contrasts in the discussion, Eclipse, Visual Studio, >> Notepad, Codesmit, SQL Studio, PHP, etc.. ? being insulated is one of the >> major problems i've seen around CF for years.. as if more folks understood >> OO as a composition from various technologies such as Java + .NET etc then >> you'd have less spoon feeding on the semantically differences between a TO >> vs BO :) - expand your horizons. >> >> 3) I've been on this list pre your existance, and have seen the winds of >> change come and go many times around this battle between .NET and CF. >> Basically it's a fools errand as to be openly honest, Coldfusion doesn't >> even show up on our compete radar at Microsoft? So if you were to adopt .NET >> because of some random rogue comment on some equally random relatively small >> membership driven mailing list, it wouldn't move the needle for both Adobe >> or Microsoft to warrant a reactive response. Everytime you promote that >> thought about "think of the jnr impressionable CF developers" you're >> actually doing more harm then good as you're effectively saying "We are >> barely keeping this technology alive". Sean Corfield echoed some thoughts >> around this a while back, in that the only people that are calling CF dead >> are CF Community.. stop it and you'll be more relaxed and less "the sky is >> fallig" syndrome. >> >> 4) Be a student of software, not brand. >> >>> >>> >>> Competition is needed in a healthy IT environment, choices of technology >>> are what make us strive to be better coders in our chosen technology, and >>> encourage the technology companies to continually make their products better >>> and more competitive. Heck there wouldn't be a Silverlight if it weren't >>> for Flash player. >>> >> >> Agreed, but that contradicts your previous point doesn't it? >> >> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> R >>> >>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> To annoy you :) as i know deep down you dislike Microsoft and it just >>>> goes totally against you grain.. >>>> >>>> - >>>> That and I still write a lot of CF code for family/friends and old sites >>>> I still support. I work for the machine, but i still hold to certain >>>> technology from my past ;) >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Rae Buerckner < >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Scott, >>>>> >>>>> I have a question why are you on a CF list? >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> R >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Scott Barnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Why haven't you used *Microsoft SQL Server Management Studio Express? >>>>>> * it's basically the Enterprise Manager redeux. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C243A5AE-4BD1-4E3D-94B8-5A0F62BF7796&displaylang=en >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually I've been stuck with VIsual Studio since SQLServer dropped >>>>>>> Enterprise Manager and forced us to have VS. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think its the worst application on my machine. It's slow as a >>>>>>> rainy >>>>>>> Sunday to load, the documentaion is so appallingly written it's >>>>>>> impossible to figure out how to do anything - i'd do almost anything >>>>>>> to avoid using it. Even use notepad. I have tried many times to >>>>>>> understand what's going on and how to use it properly, and without >>>>>>> success. Any time i try to use the documentation i get so sick of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> endless nested sidetracks ( "... to read more about this click here >>>>>>> ...") that can take me up to 10 links away from what i originally set >>>>>>> out to learn. That's the worst aspect of any of Microsoft's >>>>>>> documentation - no one there (except perhaps you, Scott) seems able >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> write a straightforward document in plain easy-to-understand language >>>>>>> about anything. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So i haven't been able to get that grossly bloated and over=weight >>>>>>> application to do anything for me except uploading databases to my >>>>>>> remote server and bringing them down to my dev machine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For anything else I'll run a mile from Visual Studio. I just dont >>>>>>> have enough of my life left remaining to waste trying to figure out >>>>>>> this IDE. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> Mike Kear >>>>>>> Windsor, NSW, Australia >>>>>>> Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer >>>>>>> AFP Webworks >>>>>>> http://afpwebworks.com >>>>>>> ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET <http://asp.net/> hosting from >>>>>>> AUD$15/month >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Scott Barnes < >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>> > I dare you to do it barry. write in Notepad vs VS Studio 2008... >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > You're on crack if you think VS Studio isn't one of the most power >>>>>>> IDE"s on >>>>>>> > the planet. I'll deflect and absorb a lot of crap around being all >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> > Microsoft, but i've meet die hard Java fanbois through to Adobe >>>>>>> staffers >>>>>>> > whom have all agreed - Visual Studio is powerful. Now if it's not >>>>>>> your cup >>>>>>> > of tea, that's cool but "spagetti code" ... you = epic fail :) >>>>>>> > btw do you ever stop whining about Microsoft? you grumpy muso :) >>>>>>> heheh. >>>>>>> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Barry Beattie < >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> is this turning into a Frameworks Vs tools debate? >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, >>>> Scott Barnes >>>> http://www.mossyblog.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
