I wonder if your professor from Taiwan was referring to the "New Culture Movement" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Culture_Movement that took place in China in the 1910s and 1920s. One result was the institution of a vernacular literature, where a Mandarin speaker would write the way he/she spoke. THAT was a breakthrough.
What happened before was akin to speaking in English as you do today but writing as Shakespeare did. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Mitchell <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010 14:52 Subject: Re: [Jchat] the things i dislike most about J To: Chat forum <[email protected]> > A very instructive reply. > > Thank you. > > (I hope this is somewhat correct.) > > 謝謝你 > > > On 1/31/2010 11:58, Roger Hui wrote: > >> He said that there had been a breakthrough in written > >> Chinese that had happened during the leadership of Chairman Mao, > >> where the symbols used were greatly simplified to allow a > more universal > >> access to the written language. > > > > I disagree. The "breakthrough in written Chinese" > > is the equivalent of a new font in English, like the > > change in printed German from using a Gothic > > font to the Roman font. > > > > There was another attempt at a breakthrough > > which as far as I know has failed, namely to > > alphabetize Chinese words. For example: > > > > traditional Chinese: 黑龍江 > > simplified Chinese: 黑龙江 > > alphabeticized Chinese: Heilongjiang (Hei-long-jiang) > > > > This is not "instead of", but "totally replace". > > > > Only a totalitarian regime with Mao's degree > > of control would have even contemplated > > the simplified Chinese system, let alone > > the alphabeticized system. In the case of > > the latter even that degree of control was > > not enough. I think they'd have to kill > > off anyone raised on the old symbols, > > and inculcate the alphabeticized system > > from birth along with giving mother's milk. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Mitchell<[email protected]> > > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:36 > > Subject: Re: [Jchat] the things i dislike most about J > > To: Chat forum<[email protected]> > > > >> I find the comparison of J symbology and written Chinese > >> interesting. I > >> struggled for years learning Spanish, Latin and German in my > >> early school years > >> and I gained little useful fluency. In my last year of > >> college, I studied > >> Mandarin Chinese (since mostly forgotten). > >> > >> I found spoken Mandarin a surprisingly easy language to learn > >> (at a 6 year old > >> level.) I found written Chinese much more challenging. > >> > >> Part of the course discussed the history of the language. > >> Our teacher noted > >> that classical written Chinese was a formal language of the > >> elite, never > >> intended for general use. He said that there had been a > >> breakthrough in written > >> Chinese that had happened during the leadership of Chairman Mao, > >> where the > >> symbols used were greatly simplified to allow a more universal > >> access to the > >> written language. > >> > >> On 1/29/2010 18:27, Dan Bron wrote: > >>> DIETER ENSSLEN wrote: > >>>> J is challenging in itself. > >>> > >>> I agree that J is challenging to learn. > >>> > >>>> All meaningless symbols. > >>> > >>> But I disagree here. The phrase "meaningless symbol" is > >> an oxymoron: if a symbol doesn't mean anything, it's > not a > >> symbol. And, > >>> of course, all J's symbols mean something ([1]). > >>> > >>> The analogy we usually give is to Chinese. When I look > >> at a Chinese newspaper or sign, I certainly can divine no > >> meaning. So yes, > >>> to me, the symbols are meaningless. But over a billion > >> people on this planet live their whole lives using only > Chinese, so > >>> obviously it means something to them. And maybe that > >> "something" is worth the difficult challenge to learn Chinese > >> (which is so > >>> very different from English). Or maybe not. > >> Depends on what your goals are. > >>> > >>> -Dan > >>> > >>> [1] http://www.jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/vocabul.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
