catch-phrase 2010/2/11 Ian Clark <[email protected]>: > I too confess to finding the word "Phrase" to be too non-specific. To > me a "phrase" is any coherent subexpression. > > The J community is at liberty to find anything it is seeking. But a > novice may see the term as one more peg on which is hung a hidden > meaning. > > Conversely APL's "idiom" always seemed too strong to me: implying We > Who Are In The Know attach more meaning to this phrase than a mere > beginner would. It is also acquiring the additional meaning in APL: a > phrase the interpeter recognises for optimisation. > > Useful phrases? Noteworthy phrases? We'll need a novice-friendly > section heading for this in the new on-line Voc. > > In analogy with "soundbite", the word "codebite" springs to mind. But > I'm not seriously proposing it as official terminology. > > Ian > > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Roger Hui <[email protected]> wrote: >> No, we are looking for "phrase" and we found it long ago. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Michael Dykman <[email protected]> >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 11:14 >> Subject: Re: [Jchat] Newbie Musings 2: How I got to J >> To: Chat forum <[email protected]> >> >>> from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saying >>> >>> Aphorism. A concise definition, notably memorable. >>> Adage. An aphorism that has gained credibility by >>> virtue of long use. >>> >>> Is it possible that we are looking for 'adage' here? >>> >>> - michael dykman >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Roger Hui <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > In natural languages, a phrase book would be quite >>> > a different thing from a book of aphorisms. >>> > A phrase book would contain practically useful items >>> > like "Excuse me, where is the nearest toilet", >>> > whereas an aphorism book would have things like >>> > "I think, therefore I am." >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: Dan Bron <[email protected]> >>> > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:38 >>> > Subject: Re: [Jchat] Newbie Musings 2: How I got to J >>> > To: 'Chat forum' <[email protected]> >>> > >>> >> Björn wrote: >>> >> > Just out of curiosity I would like to know if what APL >>> >> called idioms >>> >> > is also called idioms in J or if people prefer to call >>> >> it phrases in J >>> >> >>> >> I don't like "phrases" because it is too generic; any J sentence >>> >> or clause is a "phrase". Others deprecate "idioms" because it >>> >> implies the meaning is unpredictable given the component words >>> >> (e.g. "kick the bucket"), whereas the meaning of a J idiom is >>> >> completely predictable from (in fact, is determined by) its >>> >> components words. >>> >> >>> >> What we need is a word that means "common, useful, memorable >>> >> phrase" or "a phrase that is so common it is essentially a word, >>> >> and is >>> >> easily recognized and recalled"*. How about: >>> >> >>> >> Aphorism: A concise definition, notably memorable. >>> >> >>> >> Of course, we have other choices: >>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saying . I love WP! >>> >> >>> >> -Dan >>> >> >>> >> * This "the phrase as a word" is the motivation for the use of >>> >> "idiom", >>> >> because as a word is composed of letters, and >>> >> its meaning is >>> >> unrelated to those letters, so a idiom is >>> >> composed of words, and >>> >> its meaning is unrelated to those words; I >>> >> think there is a technical >>> >> linguisitic term for these "component words", >>> >> and I thought it was >>> >> "lexemes", but WP disagrees. >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >
-- Björn Helgason, Verkfræðingur Fornustekkum II 781 Hornafirði Po Box 127,801 Selfoss , t-póst: [email protected] gsm: +3546985532 sími: +3544781286 http://groups.google.com/group/J-Programming Tæknikunnátta höndlar hið flókna, sköpunargáfa er meistari einfaldleikans góður kennari getur stigið á tær án þess að glansinn fari af skónum /|_ .-----------------------------------. ,' .\ / | Með léttri lund verður | ,--' _,' | Dagurinn í dag | / / | Enn betri en gærdagurinn | ( -. | `-----------------------------------' | ) | (\_ _/) (`-. '--.) (='.'=) ♖♘♗♕♔♙ `. )----' (")_(") ☃☠ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
