Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:38:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [CITTERN] Re: plucked bass To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear Frank Norberg I hope this may help. There have been a few articles covering all this. A short article is that compiled by Lynda Sayce in Lute News 67 (Oct 2005) which summarises the papers (from late 1970s on) by Gill, Prosser and myself. Things like the similarity to the guitar tuning, the 'Wandervogl' instrument links, etc are covered in this and earlier papers. I am not aware of any Tielke mandoras but 'new' instruments are still coming to light (especially from Easteren Europe and Russia). The late 18thC Italian lute (usually 7 course) is distinguishable from the German mandora/gallichon (M/G) by its much shorter neck (and Italian makers): the Italian instrument only allows 7 or 8 tied frets; the German 9 or 10 (incidentally the large continuo instrument in A generally allows 11 or even 12 tied frets). This shorter neck perhaps reflects the simple accompaniment role expected in Italy. There is, however, some cross fertilisation in that a few late Bohemian/Moravia/Austrian mandoras exhibit 'fish tail' bridge ends similar to some also found on these 18thC Italian lutes. Much more work needs to be done on the Italian instruments. Rather than these simple instruments (ie the Italian ones) being used by professionals, I think rather the reverse but am still researching this area. I think usage probably parallels the M/G and baroque lute practice in German speaking areas where the professional players played the (difficult) 13 course Dm 'baroque' lute whilst the small M/G (ie from low 60s to mid 70s string length) in E or D was largely an amateur instrument. There is a considerable, if mostly poor, M/G repertoire in tablature (solos and vocal and chamber music) dating from 1720s to 1800 which is all relatively easy compared to the demands of much late Dm lute rmusic. MH Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Martyn Hodgson wrote: > The 18thC Mandora (aka Gallichon - various cognates) was also tuned > in E as well as D. This of course means that the modern guitar tuning was already common - or at least fairly well known - as a lute tuning before it was used for the guitar. Among other things that gives a whole new perspective to the late 19th/early 20th C. German "Wandervogel-laute." Usually it's been shrugged off as just a silly attempt to give the guitar some fake pedigree by making it look like a lute. Now it turns out a virtually identical instrument existed even as early as the 17th century. Is there any evidence of such an instrument from he early 19th century? > The large continuo gallichon was tuned in A (ie with first course as the > top line of the bass clef) so 886 cm is by no means too large. Sorry I misunderstood Barber there. I thought he meant an octave higher. > Despite Barber's statement that the Schorn is the only extant large > galichon in A, there are, in fact, a number of others Is there any evidence that Tielke made such instruments? > The Mandora/Gallichon should, however, not be confused with the 18thC > Italian lute Could you tell us a bit more about the difference? The description you give seems to fit the galichon fairly well. > My view is that these are, indeed, simply continuations of the old lute > (in nominal G or A depending on local pitch) and played accompanied from > staff notation (like the late archlute of Dalla Casa) but without the > complication (for amatuers) of the extra open basses. I would assume that professionals would also occasionally prefer this more portable alternative to the arhclute and theorbe. > I'm currently developing a paper on this. Please let us know when and where you publish! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://stores.ebay.com/Nordbergs-Music-Store?refid=store To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --------------------------------- Sent from Yahoo! Mail. More Ways to Keep in Touch. --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference --
