Wow! Two heart clinics in England (which is about the size of Connecticut - and I mean just England, not Scotland as well) with another one now and again is alot. Plus being held in conjunction with the Championship shows where most breeders are going anyway (judging by the huge entries). That is far more accessible than what we have here.
I was not responding to your personal opinion - sorry I did not make that clear. I was just pointing out that the UK Cavalier Club must have had a reason to publish a Heart Registry. They didn't just wake up one morning and say, let's publish a heart registry. Didn't the UK Cavalier Club start the Heart Registry shortly after your initial Heart Symposium some 5 years or so ago? Something must have come to light at that Symposium to warrant the publication of this Heart Registry. I am sure alot of thought went into it -- I know it did with our Health Registry here in the USA. Your point is well taken that you do not care for people who want to know all about everyone's business -- called a "nosey parker" (I think this is an Englishism -- can't tell the difference any more between what's English and what's American!). But we are not talking about people who want to know your deepest, darkest secrets. We are trying to breed healthy dogs and without the cooperation and therefore assistance of other breeders, it is not possible for us to do this. Personally, I have never had a problem divulging good and bad health test results to those who ask -- I am always thrilled when my dogs pass their tests, young or old. So many British dogs join us here in the USA -- wouldn't it be wonderful to know the health background of these dogs? This is where the UK Heart Registry is so helpful and important. >From what I can see, the majority of Cavaliers bred in the USA (and I am not talking about the Cavaliers in Pet Shops, Auctions , Puppy Mills etc) both in the CKCSC and AKC are examined by a Board Certified Cardiologist annually or sometimes a little less often but nonetheless seen by a Cardiologist several times in their lifetime (and if they are not, then shame on their breeder/owners). Most of the breeders here are really very diligent about making sure their dogs are cardiologist clear before breeding them -- I think members of this list would agree with me here -- hopefully?!! The same is true in Canada where in addition they color doppler their dogs -- how often, I don't know. The Scandinavian Countries all have heart protocols that involve cardiologists and in Germany they must color doppler all Cavaliers at 2 yrs of age plus they are encouraged to stethoscopically examine them annually by a cardiologist. If they do not pass a doppler at 2 yrs, then they cannot be bred. In Britain (and I think in France too, although I really don't know) very few of the dogs are seen by cardiologists. Why? This is a tragic state of affairs especially when Britain is where Cavaliers originated and so many British dogs are exported annually all over the world therefore their good and bad genes are also spread all over the world. Certainly we hear about lines from various countries that lead long, healthy lives but we also hear of so many of them that do not. Note the emphasis on "hear" as this is all it is -- and we have to base our breeding programs on third and fourth hand information which may or may not be correct. Out of interest, can anyone tell us what efforts are being made in Britain by the breeders to reduce the incidence of MVD in Cavaliers? What about in France? and Australia and New Zealand? It is very interesting to hear how other breeders are dealing with this problem. We all battle MVD -- no-one is void of it. So how do we all proceed with our breeding plans in all the various counrtries? What programs are being/have been started in all these countries regarding MVD or any other health problems for that matter? This post is not directed at you personally, Annette, but certainly it is food for thought and I hope you will take this to your UK Cavalier Club Meetings and think about how we can all band together and help each other - for the sake of Cavaliers! It would be nice if the "mother country" of Cavaliers could initiate a world wide MVD program where we could all participate. Anne Annette Jones wrote: > Anne > > "(despite Cardiology clinics held at many of the UK shows)." > > A slight exaggeration Anne I can think of only two Clubs - the National and > the Southern that routinely run Cardiology clinics - some of the others do > on an ad hoc basis. The fact that many members use their vets is because the > Cardiologists that are here in this country are few and far between. > > "If it is none of anyone's business, then why does the Cavalier Club feel > the need to publish this Heart Registry?" > You are using this out of context - I was writing about my personal opinion. > By all means if people wish to publish they are free to do so but that does > not make others wrong who do not wish to. I used to tick the box that said I > did not wish the information published even though the dogs were eligible to > be entered - the two that are on is because I forgot to tick the box VBG > I suppose I am old fashioned but I abhor the attitude of some that consider > it their "right" to know everything about other peoples business and if they > don't get said information take a holier than thou attitude. > I was brought to believe it was "polite" to ask but also to accept that it > was the other persons "right" not to reply if they didn't wish to. > Strangely enough whenever I have followed this edict (drilled into me by my > aunt) the information and more has been freely given to me > > Annette > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cavatibs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Why NOT boast about testing? > > > The UK Cavalier Club publishes a Heart Registry, updated every year, in > which > > is listed Cavaliers (over five years or any age? I can't remember) with > clear > > heart certificates (but not necessarily from a cardiologist - infact less > than > > 10% are checked by a Cardiologist despite Cardiology clinics held at many > of > > the UK shows). If it is none of anyone's business, then why does the > Cavalier > > Club feel the need to publish this Heart Registry? > > > > The CKCSC also has a Health Registry where dogs of 5 yrs and older with > clear > > cardiology heart test results are published (as well as doppler, eye, > patella, > > OFA hips as a voluntary addition). Also in this Registry is a list of > deceased > > dogs that have lived to 12 yrs of age. Also in this Registry is a list of > Stud > > dogs and Bitches who have produced three or more offspring whose hearts > were > > cleared by a cardiologist over the age of 5 yrs. (If anyone would like a > copy > > of this Registry, or the one from England, you can contact me privately). > > > > In my recent communication with Dr Swensen, a geneticist in Sweden, he > stressed > > the importance of "families". It is vital that we all know about the > families > > of the dogs we are breeding to and from. This is why supporting the > > Health/Heart Registries in one's respective country is so important and it > is > > also why health test results are the business of everyone who breeds > Cavaliers. > > > > It is my understanding that it would be better to breed a borderline (note > I > > did not say mild, moderate or severe) dysplastic dog from a litter of OFA > good > > siblings than to breed an OFA good dog from a litter of dysplastic > offspring - > > but in order to make this decision, you need to know about the siblings. > > Likewise, it would surely then be better to breed a dog who has just come > up > > with a grade I murmur at 5 yrs (note I did not say a grade III murmur at 3 > yrs > > of age) whose entire family history have cardiologist clear hearts than a > > one-off dog with a clear heart until 7 yrs but whose entire family heart > > history is bad. Someone once said, without knowledge of the families' > heart > > status, you are breeding blind -- sort of like trying to fix your > automobile by > > randomly selecting various and sundry parts from your neighbors car. It > > doesn't work well, if at all. > > > > So ..... don't you all think that it is better to work together, health > test > > the dogs, provide the test results, support the various Club's Health / > Heart > > Registries and in general be a little prouder of one's own health tested > dogs > > and a little more supportive of those who own healthy dogs, joining them > in > > their enthusiasm that their dog is older and healthy? It would be to the > > benefit of all Cavaliers. > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Annette Jones wrote: > > > > > Well personally I don't think it is anyone's business but mine what I > test > > > for. Should anyone wish to use one of my dogs or buy one of my puppies I > > > will produce the necessary documentation for them to see. Meanwhile I am > far > > > to busy in my life to be broadcasting to the world in general every test > > > result - the result is only worth as much as the paper it is written > on - a > > > dog could be clear when tested last month and have a grade 1 this month. > > > Neither do I think I should "be using all my persuasive powers to > encourage > > > others" - to me it is up to their own conscience and sounds rather like > > > harassment > > > > > > Just my opinion VBG > > > > > > Annette > > > - > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. > > > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
