In my experience VCs aren’t as interested in people trying to move quickly with niche technologies as they once were. 10 years ago it was different when people saw that a Rails team could get products to market faster than the existing enterprisey technologies and change direction faster than lightweight technologies like PHP. That was then, now most startups claim they’ll be fast because they have secret-sauce X & Y. A secret sauce is just assumed. They’ll ask what it is and grill you on it, and you can blow the deal that way, but you can’t win the funding on stack.
On the other side, your tech-stack has to be exitable to attract their attention. They have to be able to imagine the potential acquisitors and how they’ll react to your choice of X. If they think it would put off the mosts likely candidates that might be a problem, but it might not - that’s a case by case judgement call. The third aspect is risk: how likely is a startup to fail just because they chose the wrong tech? Startups are risky, and if you perceive people to be taking foolish risks in technology, that doesn’t inspire confidence. So, where does cljs stand in respect to with those attributes? I don’t know. I might suggest, not too well, if only because so much rests on the inestimable David Nolen’s shoulders. If something terrible happened to him, or he got bored or was overcome with a desire to only program in VB6, or… well, I don’t know bright the cljs future is without him. Outside of clojurescript itself the ecosystem is interesting but very 1-man project-centric. The only big exceptions are Om, back to David, or Reagent, which still has a low volume of commits and a small community. Where was I going with all this? tl;dr; * Clojurescript may be a competitive advantage, but it isn’t an obviously dominant one. * It brings with it risks that would counterbalance the advantage from certain people’s perspective. * We all owe David a lot and we should remember to thank him, let him know how much we appreciate him.. and perhaps take out top-flight medical insurance for him. Rob. > On 15 Apr 2015, at 08:40, Daniel Kersten <[email protected]> wrote: > > My startup is full stack clojure. I wouldn't be able to stick the hardships > of a startup if it weren't developed in something I care about. I also find > that the community is quite passionate and, since it's still somewhat of a > niche, it makes it easier to attract talent - quite a few people saying they > want to use clojure(script) day to day but less competition from companies > since fewer use clojure. We'll see how it pans out long term, but for now it > seems beneficial. I suppose I'll fund out as we try to actually hire a load > of these people if it helps or hinders us but it seems to add a little > novelty value. > > On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:35 Marc Fawzi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > I feel the same way and I assume many others share the sentiment and logic. > > My question is about finding an angle to have investors like YCombinator (esp > that PG is big Lisp guy) to favor companies that use full stack Clojure or at > least ClojureScript. The angle I'm thinking of is like so: Clojure/Script is > a talent retention tool and startups will do better if they use it, if only > for that reason, but the bigger reason for startups to use it is that it > helps programmers become better at their craft, leading to superior products > and superior teams. If this theory is anecdotally "proven" then we can give > plenty of real examples. > > Yup, just trying to find an angle, if there is one, to get more startups > using Clojure/Script so we can all enjoy a bigger and more diverse > ecosystem.... Surely, this is the same wish most practitioners have. So maybe > we can get the community behind a Clojure/Script education campaign, or just > seeding that thought.... > > :) > > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 7:26 AM, Brian J. Rubinton <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Is your question more generally, are employees more engaged / productive / > loyal when given the opportunity to use cutting edge tools? (and do VCs > recognize such tools as a competitive advantage vs an unnecessary risk that > makes hiring difficult?) > > Or, is your question whether Clojure/Script is such a tool? > > Personally, the only reason I considered my current employer is because the > team is full stack Clojure. For me this is a huge source of job stickiness. I > feel like I'm becoming a better programmer faster -- I'm learning more -- > using Clojure than I would using traditional tools. For that reason my first > question of any other opportunity is whether they use a tool with similar > promise. > > PG's "Beating the Averages" feels relevant here: > http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html <http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html> > That's from the entrepreneur's perspective. Not sure whether the broader VC > community agrees. > > - Brian > > On 4/15/15 9:48 AM, Marc Fawzi wrote: >> fixed title.... would like to discuss in person with other interested folks >> if not suitable for the mailing list... :) >> >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Marc Fawzi <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Hey everyone, >> >> Would you say that Clojure/Script, owing to its relative obscurity and great >> design, can be a talent retention tool for startups? >> >> I feel more motivated to go to work every day and more stickiness with my >> employer as a direct consequence of working with ClojureScript and Reagent. >> >> Do you think this is a general phenomenon? >> >> If so, what can we do to educate the VC community as to the advantages of >> funding startups that use Clojure/Script? Could this ever fly? >> >> Or is it a situation where most of the world outside this mailing list (and >> a few other ones) views ClojureScript as a science experiment? >> >> Just very curious. If the consensus on this is positive im sure a few of us >> determined souls would be inclined to *help* educate the VCs and startups >> thru a potentially crowd funded direct education campaign... Or community >> good will. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> -- >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your >> first post. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "ClojureScript" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript >> <http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript>. > > > -- > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ClojureScript" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript > <http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript>. > > > -- > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ClojureScript" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript > <http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript>. > > -- > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "ClojureScript" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript > <http://groups.google.com/group/clojurescript>. -- Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ClojureScript" group. 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