This is not appropriate for this group. Rob
On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Daniel Brown <[email protected]>wrote: > You have nary a glint of my attitude on war, or the funding of the > military, or the pom pom waving, yet you say you know them. Neat trick, I > guess I need to start wearing that aluminum beanie again just in case. I'm > sure you know conservatives like me though, since there are approx. 2 > conservative for each liberal throughout the country. It is funny though, > have you ever wondered why it is, that the veterans who have fought for this > country are usually the most conservative. Do you think they might have > learned something, having been in the service of their country and the price > of freedom that others just don't get? Oh, it's probably just the brain > washing we get, you know all that god and country crap, huh. But I digress, > I would like to set you factually straight about my observations on war that > you would rather not hear, and you can correct me if I'm wrong (but I'm > not). Over the past 61 years, your liberal friends have involved our country > in wars in these 3rd world countries as you so aptly put it, to the tune of > nearly 112, 000 American soldiers lives lost, while those, war loving > conservatives, have expended nearly 6,650 lives. Lets see thats nearly 17 to > 1 if my math serves me well (and I won't even bother with the numbers of > injured or worry about those MIA's from Viet Nam, and whether we should we > count them, now that it's been over 40 years.). So lets see, in your world > the conservatives build the up the military, so the liberals can use it? > Hmmm, and one last item that frustrates me to death. Why was it that when > Bush was in office the daily death count and total death count in iraq was > on every nightly news, yet now that the president is a democrat it is hardly > mentioned at all in Afghanistan. Hmm, another of mysterious conundrum I > guess. > > Those 1%'ers you refer to, the one's these wars enriched, such the > infamous military industrial complex that your type love to espouse, are > supposed to be the real basis of evil I suspect. Well, I guess under the big > government policies you seem to love, the 1%'ers will be those that run that > big government, so instead of that military industrial complex getting our > tax payer dollars, it will only cost you only your freedoms as that big > government controls more and more of your life. You may ask why I think > this? Maybe it's like that 1(800) number I mention below. > > Look, someone always finds a way to the top of the pyramid, there will > always be 1%er's. I put to you that if you took all the money in the United > states tomorrow and divided it up equally among everyone (I know you would > love that), that within ten years the present financial break down of the > population would be very close to what it is today, like water, everything > gravitates to it's own level. It might not be the exactly the same people > (there is some luck involved) but the break down in the numbers themselves > would look very similar, and this is what income redistribution attempts to > control. I'm sorry, there will always be 1%er's whether they be in business > or government, it's just that now it's being slanted in favor of the > government. Inasmuch as the government continues to demonize the capitalist > system that made this this greatest country in the history of the world. > > Throughout history, there is always a few 1%er's that are remembered and > a few that aren't for their achievements whether they be good or ill. As for > the rest of the masses of humanity that existed, they are no more important > than the trees and bushes that were alive at that time these memorable > people lived. I'm sure your going to say a lot of non famous people > contributed but went unnoticed. Yes there were but they are also part of > your 1%er's. That is the way it will always be, and any attempt to harness > the dynamics of the few achievers will be as futile as trying to beat Bobby > Fischer on the chess board, because if you stop him one way, he beats you > another way. Kings and Queens and all other forms of centrally based big > governments have morphed into tyrannical systems, that is the very nature of > governing and power.That was the very reason our founders tried to create a > weak central government with many smaller state governments to keep the > central government in check. Hence federalism. > > No matter how hard you may try to govern every aspect of everyones life, > there are going to be situations and circumstances that will not only seem > unfair, but are unfair, because anything that ends a life before it's > natural time has to be unfair, and you cannot make laws or government > agencies to protect us from everything that can happen. The truly important > thing is that we are allowed to live in a place that allows us the freedoms > to be and grow to whatever potential we are capable of, whether it's rich or > poor, beautiful or ugly, smart or dumb, leader or peasant and deal with the > unfairness as we travel along life's road. We can force short term solutions > upon the peasants (you and me), but left to the market forces these have > always corrected themselves without government intervention, usually through > technology, such as light, flushing toilets, hot water, heating and cooling, > medicines such as Gleevec and the drugs that follow Gleevec and Sprycel. > Perhaps it will be the asthma drug Zileuton that actually may cure CML, or > maybe a drug very close to it. It may not save you and me but it will save > future generations. As technology continues to advance, these medical issues > will continue to be addressed and solved just as they are being solved now. > And just like electronics the price will continue to drop and patents > expire, as the new discoveries age with time and become common place. > Everyday, we hear more and more about the break throughs in cancer detection > and treatment. Cancers that have been the enemy of many since man came upon > the earth. I can even see the day that physicians will be little more than > mechanics. Feed the data into a computer and out comes the diagnosis' in > descending order of probability, with the treatment for each. We presently > have robots doing surgery, although the surgeon is still in the room. but > not beside the operating table. That will continue to evolve and grow. > > One of my favorite quotes is from a science fiction writer name Robert > Heinlein. When the queen of the universe was asked how she could be gone > from her thrown such a long period of time, her response was, "that over the > eons they had learned that most problems tended to work themselves out far > better on their own, than when government got involved". Now, that is a > concept I understand perfectly. > > I know you will disagree with my basic tenet that we have the best > healthcare in the world, but I want you to guarantee me that it will > continue be at least at it's present level in ten years into this healthcare > bill. No you can't, because you nor anyone can't anticipate the unintended > consequences that it brings with it. Right now, we hear about new medical > break throughs daily. Can you insure that those will continue at the pace > they are now once the government controls are put in place? No you can't, > and neither can I or anyone else. Except maybe for Pelosi who knew it > without even reading the bill. That statement alone should live in everyones > memory forever. Truly amazing! > > Although it may end up costing me my life, I would like knowing that I > wasn't the reason all americans lost more of their precious freedoms, > because freedoms that are lost can never be regained without revolution, > which is a price we as a country have paid once already. Remember every time > a law is passed a freedom is lost! And this puppy is going to have a whole > bunch of new laws! > > By the way, I just heard (this is not a joke) that our government has now > setup a 1(800) number you can call if you have a mean boss, (no I'm serious > about this) so they can get you in touch with an atty. I guess that takes > care of the payback to the trial attys. contributions to the democratic > party. > > Don't bother replying, this will be the last word on this topic. > > > > P.S. Minsu, I will be waiting to hear your thoughts on "Atlas Shrugged" by > Ayn Rand (I'm counting on you to read it) > > On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:59 PM, Russell wrote: > > > Daniel unfortunately most all of us all know one person or another in > > our lives like yourself who, especially in today's world, continuously > > try and warn us of the dangers and horrors of higher taxes, increasing > > debt and above all BIG GOVERNMENT. While an admirable trait to be sure > > it's incredible how when someone mentions the word WAR those same > > conscientious conservatives suddenly morph into uber tax spending, > > deficit enhancing, pom pom waving pro government cheerleaders for whom > > Washington DC itself cannot present a big enough presence in the > > world. > > > > And kid yourself not, for when that those high powered armies reach > > their ultimate destination for another glorious conquest of yet > > another 3rd world country, it's not yours nor my way of life they are > > fighting for, it's those top 1%'ers your idolizing, THEIR way of life. > > > > It's not too much for me to ask for most of that money that's still > > defending us from the horrors of the USSR to be used right here in the > > good 'ole USA helping the kid down the block pay for her CML > > treatment, just like the rest of the civilized world so that our life > > expectancy and infant mortality rates climb at least into the top 30 > > worldwide. > > > > Our new healthcare plan isn't perfect, but it's a good start to help > > bring us up to the rest of the world standards. > > > > > > > > On Feb 7, 4:08 pm, Daniel Brown <[email protected]> wrote: > >> OK. > >> > >> Just know that this healthcare bill will not create the utopia you seek. > And as far as the top of the food chain not paying taxes is a myth. 47% of > our population pays no federal withholding taxes at all! The top 20% of > income earners pay 85% of all federal witholding taxes. Those numbers come > from NPR, hardly a conservative Bastian( > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125997180). Unlike > some, I don't dislike the rich, hell I hoped to be one of them, didn't we > all? Yet, we think they must have done something evil or wrong to get that > money, when in fact they educated themselves and put themselves into the > positions they are with thier own skills. Do we blame the beautiful for > their beauty that we don't posses? Or the athletes that posses the > athleticism that we lack? Yet, we blame the rich for their hard work and > good fortune. So be it. I guess we need someone to blame for our > misfortunes, for surely it couldn't be our own fault. why are some born more > intelligent than others? That doesn't seem fair does it. Maybe with this new > healthcare bill they can make us all equal in that regard to. > >> On Feb 7, 2011, at 3:33 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> > >>> Thank you Russell. > >> > >>> I live in houston and daily witness tragedy when insurance companies > 'just say no.' My own policy went from a 2000 deductible to a 5000 > deductible, and the usual and customary percentages change with the wind, > and never in my favor. > >> > >>> Progress is painful, and I'd like some of the folks at the top of the > economic food chain to pay the same percentage of taxes I do, and deal with > the life and death decisions that lack of MONEY -- not disease-- presents. > Face it without health care reform, if you don't have the money, there is a > good chance care may be denied--dying or not. I'd like to see some of the > house republicans meet our friends in bankruptcy because of insurance > loopholes and trying to fight huge corporate legal teams. > >> > >>> Compassion can't be legislated, and this is more than a debate. It's > life and death. > >>> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Russell <[email protected]> > >>> Sender: [email protected] > >>> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2011 12:50:11 > >>> To: CMLHope<[email protected]> > >>> Reply-To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: [CMLHope] Re: Digest for [email protected] - 4 > Messages in 2 Topics > >> > >>> I seldom contribute here anymore but still receive posts from the > >>> group in a lurking capacity. Please forgive my lack of recent > >>> contribution but once in a great while I find a post like Daniel > >>> Brown's that I simply cannot ignore without comment. > >> > >>> After my CML diagnosis is 2001 I started a successful stint on Gleevec > >>> until 2004 when my PCR's began showing signs of a gradual resistance > >>> to the drug and my numbers started creeping up again. At that time > >>> only clinical trials existed for the newer meds so that year we > >>> decided to take a chance with a transplant before my condition > >>> weakened to the point where a transplant would be far riskier. The > >>> result was my full blown matched unrelated donor transplant at the > >>> Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle Jan 2005. I'm 6 > >>> years post transplant now and still CML free, doing well. > >> > >>> It is there at "The Hutch" that we witnessed some of the horrors > >>> people in the last days of their lives endured while insurance > >>> companies played "that's not my problem" with the fully insured. We > >>> witnessed dying and crying patients and family members begging and > >>> pleading for coverage of essential procedures and medications during > >>> the many stages of transplant only to find their insurance provider > >>> had spent considerable time and effort finding loopholes in policies > >>> that supposedly got them off the hook. We saw entire families, insured > >>> and uninsured, who had sold every belonging they owned, maxed every > >>> credit card they could apply for and mortgaged and sold homes to > >>> insure the survival of their daughter, son, father or mother. In many > >>> cases the family breadwinner had lost their job because the burden of > >>> being a caregiver has not allowed a return to work. It's quite surreal > >>> to see a family of four living out of suitcases that literally carry > >>> every material possession they own whose very lives are all in limbo > >>> waiting for their father to either recover or die. > >> > >>> I often see posts here by folks who struggle with the costs of high- > >>> end CML meds and the strain it puts on their budget. Imagine having to > >>> front much of the cost of a $750,000 bone marrow transplant because > >>> insurance has decided they are not going to pay for essential > >>> procedures such as a $85,000 Hickman catheter operation or has decided > >>> that according to the policy the time spent at the facility has > >>> exceeded the covered time span and that any further treatment must be > >>> paid for out of pocket by a family that has not a single penny left to > >>> their name. We witnessed both of these scenarios during our 4 month > >>> stay in Seattle and beleive me people lose their lives frequently > >>> there because they SIMPLY CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE ANYMORE. > >> > >>> Of course none of what we witnessed there includes those who are > >>> uninsured and simply could not afford a transplant and rely on > >>> donations, fundraisers and the few pro bono doctors and facilities who > >>> are actually willing to treat advanced Leukemia without compensation. > >>> We have a young friend who works at Copper Mountain Resort here in > >>> Colorado who's name is Kevin. Kevin being a relatively new employee at > >>> Copper was not offered any type of company sponsored insurance when he > >>> was diagnosed with Non Hodgkins Lymphoma a couple of years ago. His > >>> doctor told him without insurance he simply could not refer him to an > >>> oncology department at any hospital without insurance coverage but he > >>> had heard of a doctor in the Vail area that was developing an advanced > >>> technique for treatment and might be willing to work pro bono if Kevin > >>> could pay for part of the medications. It's working, but 24 year old > >>> Kevin has had to file bankruptcy and has little material posession at > >>> all. Fortunately he is able to live in affordable employee housing at > >>> Copper and relies on public transportation for most of his needs. > >> > >>> Unfortunately in this Country today we have people like Daniel, who > >>> obviously have little experience, contact nor compassion for > >>> potentially uninsured people making moral and ethical decisions about > >>> peoples lives based solely on a bean counter's mentality. Who honestly > >>> beleive one can show up uninsured at an emergency room and be treated > >>> for CML. Who believes the L & L foundation takes requests for the > >>> uninsured who need treatment. Who beleive kind hearted institutions > >>> all over the nation simply treat Leukemia because it's the right thing > >>> to do. Believe me Daniel everyone appreciates the work that St. Jude's > >>> does for pediatric cancers but you can well beleive if their > >>> considerable portfolio, including large contributions from our > >>> government, would not allow for treating the uninsured they would be > >>> ignoring them along with the other 99% of all hospitals in our > >>> country. > >> > >>> We live during a time when a group of government employees were > >>> fortuitous enough and had the courage and foresight to enact much > >>> needed change to a health care system that, despite being situated in > >>> the richest most powerful country on the planet earth, could not even > >>> provide basic health care needs for those who could not afford it and > >>> were shunned by corporate America for because the very conditions they > >>> needed coverage for existed at the wrong time in their lives. We live > >>> during a time when, as insurance premiums for health care coverage > >>> more than tripled for those who could least afford it, the wealthiest > >>> 1% of all American citizens paid less income tax than at any time in > >>> our country's history. Tax money that was previously used to fund > >>> essential government programs for the very group of people that > >>> without whom the 1%'ers could not exist at all. > >> > >>> Please Daniel, for the sake of those who truly suffer in this county > >>> because of the lack of insurance, educate yourself and spread the word > >>> to others who honestly haven't a clue what it must be like to lose > >>> one's home because of an inability to pay medical bills. Ask yourself, > >>> should that REALLY be happening in THIS country? > >> > >>> On Feb 7, 9:55 am, Daniel Brown <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> The answer to your question is "yes" I had insurance that I paid for, > for 30 years before I needed it. However, the beauty is, that even if I > hadn't had the insurance, I would have been treated the same way because I > was in critical condition when diagnosed and no one had time to see if I had > insurance. White count of 360,000, enlarged spleen, skin color grey because > there wasn't any room for the red blood cells to carry the oxygen to my > body. > >> > >>>> Did you know that an E.R. physician isn't supposed to know you > insurance status when he or she treats you, to insure that you receive the > same level of healthcare as the insured? Now the hospital may know, but the > physician is supposed to be kept in the dark intentionally. Do you think > that when a person is brought in from a car accident that the hospital > determines your insurance status prior to taking them up to the O.R. for > emergency surgery? > >> > >>>> Then there are such volunteer organizations as the Leukemia and > Lymphoma Society and other organizations that can assist those without the > means to meet the costs. Look at St.Judes in Memphis that treat 1000's of > children with all types cancer completely free every year, and there are > other facilities around the country that do the same. This is one the most > state of the art facilities in the world. There is also Medicaid, that also > covers the very poor. Then the drug companies themselves donate millions of > $ for those without the means. > >> > >>>> No, this doesn't cover everyone, but I haven't heard > >> > >> ... > >> > >> read more ยป > > > > -- > > [CMLHope] > > A support group of http://cmlhope.com > > ------------------------------------------------- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CMLHope" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/CMLHope > > -- > [CMLHope] > A support group of http://cmlhope.com > ------------------------------------------------- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CMLHope" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/CMLHope -- [CMLHope] A support group of http://cmlhope.com ------------------------------------------------- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CMLHope" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/CMLHope
