> On Aug 1, 2021, at 14:25 , Noah <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - > > Nop > > > Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be > submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. > > They adopt and submit to the PDWG.
That’s exactly what Andrew said. The difference is that he stated it in the way it is stated in 11.5.i… His statement is a direct actual quote of the bylaws. Read 11.4 carefully… It does empower the board to adopt the policy and command staff to give immediate effect to the policy. This intent is further clarified by 11.5.ii when it notes that “any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid.” > In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the > said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its > non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to > such non-endorsement shall remain valid. > > AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only > if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy. This is simply not correct… You have utterly failed (as you often do) to read 11.4 et seq. as it is plainly written: 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board: Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. Apologies for the difference in numbering… The subparagraphs to 11.5 are rightfully i and ii in the original bylaws text, but I don’t know how to coerce my MUA into properly changing the type of numbers in a list. It is quite clear that 11.4 is an emergency procedure available to the board to create policy that must be implemented faster than is possible with complete community review prior to implementation. It is clear from the following phrases: 11.4 …such policies regarding the management of INR…same is necessary and urgent… 11.5.ii …shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. If your statement were correct, there would be no need for 11.5.ii, as there would be no possibility of any action being taken between the board adoption and the non-endorsement. So, unless you believe the bylaws were written with nonsensical statements that have no material effect, it is quite clear that the intent here is an emergency PDP similar to the emergency PDP in all other regions that the board can use to address urgent policy matters between policy meetings. > > So dude, the wordings are carefully written. > > 1. Board adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements. > > Or > > 2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT > enforce/implement. > > Makes sense Andrew? It does not. Because the words are, indeed, carefully written… Board adopts, Staff enforces/implements, PDWG endorses or not (some time later), staff continues or stops enforcing based on PDWG outcome. > > > > The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the > community doesn’t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who > feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. > > > Lol there is no **mean time dude** Then please explain the need for 11.5.ii > > AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse. They will until you do or don’t endorse. That’s the clear and obvious reason 11.5.ii exists. Do you have an alternative explanation? > > > > > The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the > next of wg > > > The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse. They do temporarily. It’s a (theoretically) temporary power, but it is a power they have. Indeed, a board acting in bad faith could literally pass such a policy upon the conclusion of the policy meeting, have staff begin enforcing it and have it only lapse during the next policy meeting until the board meets again to again pass such a policy. I suspect this would lead to difficulty in getting re-elected and that it is an unlikely scenario (as it should be), but it is within the rules as written for them to do so. Of course, I suppose you could admit that the wording, while perhaps carefully chosen was not particularly well chosen, but whether that’s the case or not, it still says what it says and it remains the rules by which we must all live until such time as they are legitimately changed by a proper motion and vote at an appropriately called general members meeting, whether special or annual. Owen
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