Hi Oren, I really appreciate your thoughtful reply about this. And it's definitely pushed me in the direction of greater support for the "cause." Two particular points that I can agree with: (1) the name is being spelled in two different ways for no very good reason. We might be able to solve that, and get it spelled in the way most people using the word want it to be spelled, so why not do it? (2) The way it's spelled matters to a lot of people in ways that are not specifically about language clarity and are more about identity and community support. And for those people, the preferred spelling tends to be "coworking," so why not respect that?
I'm in. I can respect that. Best, Will On Saturday, September 20, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC+2, [email protected] wrote: > > Hi Will, > > I know what your name is, I was just trying to make a point. :) > > I respect and value your points about no horse in the race and that the > indifference of the "co-working" fans would never lead them to debate this > to such an extent and that clearly this is something the "coworking" fans > are pushing here. I also see your point about the flexibility of language > and I agree no entity can stop language from changing and adapting and > being interpreted differently in different contexts. > > All that being said, I find co-working to be disrespectful. There is a > distinct difference between your example of "personal computing and > computing" and "co-working and coworking". One refers to a rapidly adapting > industry where the nature of what was being described changed over time. > While coworking is rapidly expanding and comes across new variants all the > time, I don't think anyone is claiming a full transformation is happening > like in your computing example. > > Nobody in journalism misspells kibbutz in writing and nobody just started > calling them collective agricultural communities either. Kibbutz means > something because it staked out the term and owned it. I see the exact same > thing happening with coworking except that spelling it co-working means a > distinct unfamiliarity with the subject matter. > > Maybe I'm making some assumptions here, but this was one of the first > things I learned about coworking. I don't know a single major organization, > association, product, content hub, group or otherwise large group of > coworking people identifying under the "co-working" banner. We're all > squarely organized under the "coworking" banner. So what if some space > operators choose to spell it co-working? Obviously that's their choice as > an operator and they're welcome to do so, but to me it's always been a red > flag that they're disconnected from the global community. Maybe I'm wrong > in assuming so, but in my experience it's been validated pretty > consistently. > > Even if there is little ambiguity in co-working vs. coworking (because > there's nothing currently called co-working), it's still very undignified > not be regarded as important enough to have a consistent spelling. That's > the core issue at hand from my perspective and maybe you disagree, but > that's why I think we're talking about entering the dictionary and the > style guides. It's for the same reason that a apple is in appropriate but > an apple is ok. If I said I'm going to eat a apple, you'd understand me but > look at me funny. We're just trying to get the journalists to realize that > from our perspective, co-working = a apple. > > > On Friday, September 19, 2014 5:19:38 AM UTC-5, Will Bennis, Locus > Workspace wrote: >> >> Hi Oren, >> >> I appreciate your reply about this! >> >> Actually, my name is Will, not William, damnit!!! :)))) >> >> But I don't think this is really the same. >> >> First, "coworking" isn't a company name or a given name / proper noun. >> It's not your name or my name. It's not even "the movement's" name. If >> "personal computing" became just "computing," what would you think if Apple >> or Microsoft or a handful of influential early players in the personal >> computing industry campaigned against the change and said that we can't >> change "their" name, and that it was as though their given names were being >> mis-spelled? I'd personally think they should leave the English language >> alone and that it wasn't the role of people in an industry to try to manage >> what have become common nouns in the English language. I have run a >> coworking space for more than 4 years now. I care what you call my space or >> what you call me and I care about coworking, but the idea that spelling >> coworking differently from how people who run coworking spaces think it >> should be spelled, or that misspelling is like misspelling a proper noun >> seems to me like a stretch. >> >> Second, to the extent the name is owned by the community of coworking >> space owners, or at least we have a meaningful stake in it (which I think >> we do), then who are *we*? You write that after 10 years, the coworking >> movement has earned it and that the "rest of us have all settled on >> coworking." But I don't think that's true. I see new coworking spaces all >> the time that put a hyphen in the term. As I wrote in the previous email, >> my (unsubstantiated) hypothesis is that there's really a pretty small group >> of coworking space owners who care about coworking being spelled without a >> hyphen. I've never seen poll results and I doubt the question has even been >> put to a wide audience of coworking space owners (and presumably members). >> Even within the industry I'd guess the vast majority don't care (if there >> were an option included in the poll), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if >> an international poll of coworking space owners and members showed that the >> majority even thought the better spelling would be WITH a hyphen. Why >> wouldn't you have heard that? The same reason I almost didn't make the last >> post in the first place: "the other side" (the side that would prefer a >> hyphen or just doesn't care), doesn't have a horse in the race, because for >> that side language is organic and functional and they don't see themselves >> as owning the name or as there being a meaningful difference in whether >> it's spelled with or without a hyphen. (To be clear, I have no idea about >> "the other side" or what justifications might be; I've never seen any data >> on this; but it also wouldn't surprise me). And the name coworking belongs >> to a much wider audience than just us coworking space owners by now, just >> as "personal computing belongs" to a much wider audience than Microsoft or >> Apple. And the Internet (or now internet) belongs to a much wider audience >> than the people who originally coined the name. That's a sign of the >> maturity of the word, and something to be proud of as a movement. Not >> something to fight against. >> >> Third, even if we were a coherent community who almost universally agreed >> that spelling it without a hyphen was superior, wouldn't it be good to >> examine the counter-arguments? If, after we all gave it some thought, we >> agreed that it really didn't matter and that we should let its spelling be >> determined organically, then wouldn't we have saved each other a lot of >> time working to change something that was better left to grow on its own >> according to systems that my be wiser than we are about naming? >> >> My few cents, anyway. >> >> Will >> >> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 9:30 AM, [email protected] <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> I'm with Marius on this one. >>> >>> I think the important thing here is to get us in the dictionary with the >>> spelling we use. >>> >>> To me, the spelling issue has always been indicative of a bigger thing, >>> which is official recognition as part of the English language. >>> >>> After 10 years, I think the movement has earned it. >>> >>> William, how would you feel if everyone started calling you Bill or >>> Will-iam? What if the difference between Will-iam and William was just in >>> written language and not in speech? You even stated that the reason you >>> spell it coworking is out of respect for the rest of us that have all >>> settled on coworking (you even prefer co-working!). That's all we're asking >>> of journalists in this case. And if they're denying our requests on the >>> basis of being or not being in the dictionary, then let's get in the >>> dictionary. >>> >>> Also Derek, the cowering autocorrect annoys me too! It never learns! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Marius Amado-Alves >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> FWIW, I agree with Will's arguments except the "cow" one. >>>> >>>> To summarize, the spelling is irrelevant, because there is only one >>>> coworking, irrespectively of how it is spelt. As Will points out, working >>>> with others in a company is never referred to as coworking. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless, I think there is interest in diccionarizing the terms. >>>> (And then, while we're at it, with the preferred spelling? It would be >>>> interesting to watch what happens to the guides.) >>>> >>> -- Visit this forum on the web at http://discuss.coworking.com --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
