"....the less well off of its current citizens will find themselves
in terrible circumstances and the areas with economic resources
will find themselves balkanized and ruled by elites selected by
and working in the interests of globalizing imperialism.."
sounds to me like this is what happened already so what is
the big deal? israel if i recall was set up with the help of
the united nations or its predecessor the league of nations.
i would not advocate splitting any country, but rather
that there might be circumstances when it would serve
the citizens better that there be referendums held for the
people affected to see what they want to do. the struggle
you refer to is going to cost many lives, i would not want
their blood on my hands. the battle against imperialism
is a myth, it is more a battle with human nature and those
who have got into positions of power and wealth who
are now manipulating circumstances.
rgds
leelock
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Woodford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!
> All states were recent constructs at one time. Furthermore Israel, to cite
one
> example, is a "modern construct." Being a modern construct does not
necessarily
> mean a state is invalid.
> It would be unfortunate if Indonesia splinters, I think, because the less
well
> off of its current citizens will find themselves in terrible
circumstances and
> the areas with economic resources will find themselves balkanized and
ruled by
> elites selected by and working in the interests of globalizing
imperialism.
> I'd rather see a big Indonesia that struggles toward a more just
> multi-ethnic democracy with the potential to one day use its resources to
> better the lives of all its peoples and join an anti-imperialist
coalition of
> states.
>
> leeenglock wrote:
>
> > the northern part of indonesia is aceh and they also want to secede
> > since they have had their own kings and sultans for many
> > generations. indonesia is a modern construct after the second
> > world war. there are many christians and hindus that would not
> > want to be part of the javanese controlled country, and the leadership
> > is fearful of this breakup.
> >
> > rgds
> > leelock
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Julien Pierrehumbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CrashList] Self Determination- Support It!
> >
> > > >>BOTH Australia (and allies) and Indonesia obviously. You don't have
to
> > > >>take sides.
> > > >
> > > >Indonesia is imperialist? How so, and by what criteria? This kind of
> > > >vulgarisation is likely to get us nowhere, where you use imperialist
as
> > your
> > > >own synonym for bad. I am disappointed, Julien.
> > > >
> > > >Macdonald
> > >
> > > I knew I should have left this 36486th Kosovo-like thread alone.
> > Nevertheless,
> > > let's answer the questions...
> > >
> > > I know there's not much use in using a dictionary with such words as
> > > totalitarian, left, imperialist, etc. but since Mac is attacking me
> > without saying
> > > from which perspective, I can use no defense except the generic one...
> > >
> > > noun: imperialism
> > > 1. A policy of extending your rule over foreign countries
> > > 2. A political orientation that advocates imperial interests
> > > 3. Any instance of aggressive extension of authority
> > >
> > > Indeed, this looks a bit like a synonym for bad, but it's more like a
> > subcategory
> > > in fact.
> > > So, how does it apply? There was a big country, Indonesia and a small
new
> > > one, East Timor. The big one comes and extends its rule over the small
> > one.
> > > Simple enough for me. And definitions 2 and 3 also apply.
> > > You could say that East Timor was not really a country but an imperial
> > leftover,
> > > but so was Indonesia, and so is the USA, and most countries. Are we
going
> > to
> > > argue that the USA can not be imperialist towards Cuba because both
> > > countries are colonial leftovers?
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
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