On Mon, 6 Jun 2011, Eronarn wrote: Many of the proposals have a much broader scope than Adam's suggestions. For the sake of getting something done quickly, let us distinguish between smaller fixes and larger changes. The latter will come, but they shouldn't interfere with the former.
> Sif: > >> * Sif Muna's book gifts. With jpeg's randart book code, it's different >> from scroll acquirement, while Vehumet's way is a copy of Kikubaaqudgha. >> There are more drastic proposals like a virtual library, but for now, >> let's try a small change. > > My suggestion: Sif is a 'harsh schoolteacher' god, who gifts knowledge > directly into your mind as *she* sees fit. At any piety, this will > train you in Spellcasting skill enough to get it to 1. At that point, > or if you already had it on conversion, she starts gifting single > spells until you have no slots left. Selective Amnesia, still costing > piety, becomes a way for the player to ask Sif to give some freedom in > spell choice. At higher piety, she will trust the player enough to > gift books to learn under your own direction. That's clearly an option, although not the most urgent problem of the casting gods. The idea should go to the Sif wiki. > I think we could lose the summoning aspects of Vehumet in the merge. > They could perhaps be put to better use with another god, since > they're minimal anyways (just wizardry, a cost reduction, piety on > kills by summons, and summoning book gifts IIRC). Yes. I believe there is room for a god who's good for all kinds of allies (zombies and summons). > TSO: > > TSO: identified with the sun (gold), crusading, slaying evil, martial > combat, honor > Ely: identified with the moon (marble), healing, pacifism, protection > Zin: identified with the stars (silver), preaching, order, purity, conversion > > To my mind, the common thread here is that they all want you to work > with other people. I agree with that, although I don't like that below "working with other people" is translated into "friendly monsters", i.e. allies. > We can think of the good gods as sharing something like this: for each > of them, you are the shepherd and have your flock. How you fulfill > those roles differs, but the good gods are entrusting you to put to > use those that follow you to use in the way they see as holy. > > A game proposal, then: > > TSO: Mostly-human followers trickle in to join the crusade as you > explore the dungeon. They are lower-tier paladins who become more > martially competent and grow in power as they fight alongside you. To > them, you are an inspiration; your deeds spur them on to acts of > bravery. TSO is already somewhat about allies (the divine allies, and the god does not care if allies die). This could be strengthened -- having many (especially weaker) allies might attract the problems we have with Beogh (where the solution will be to reduce the number of active allies). > Ely: Pacifism converts many intelligent monsters to friendly pacifists > who accompany you. Your invocations improve as the size of your flock > grows, but each monster is on its own pilgrimage, and most will leave > your side after a (long) time. However, a few will become dedicated > priests instead, and gain healing abilities of their own. I believe that Elyvilon works well as a god right now. The gameplay is different from the other gods, and the player can choose how far they want to take the pacification mini-game. Thematically, I see nothing wrong with an Elyvilonite as a preacher who spreads the word all alone. (He is still working with others, obviously.) > Nemelex: > > One of the problems with decks is that there are few bad effects that > can't be dealt with by drawing more cards. Summoning is the worst > offender here: if you get hostile summons, you just use summon again. > This is particularly problematic because decks are an unlimited > resource (and summoning is the easiest kind of deck to get). If we > want Nemelex to be balanced, we have to get serious about admitting > some of his failings: > > * play can be quite tedious at times > * very few people understand how the sacrifice minigame / gift timer works > * unique and powerful effects (e.g., Crusade), but also powerful > effects duplicating those of other gods (e.g., Pentagram card) > * extremely, ridiculously scummy > * far too easy to play conservatively, stacking all the important decks > * abundance of useless decks that are simply pulled through to get piety The analysis is good, but will require changes that go beyond the fixes Adam had in mind, I believe. This is clearly wiki stuff, Nemelex will get another visit at some point. I also believe that changing numbers has not been considered enough for Nemelex. If the god is really that overpowered, we can simply devalue drawing cards, so as to make the deck machine less a perpetuum mobile. > * 'Draw three cards - I pick one, then you pick one!' > * 'Draw three cards - but you have to draw from the Deck of Punishment later!' > * 'Let's play dice - beat me and win a deck of destruction!' Interesting and fitting, but should not be an option. Nemelex wants to play and you have to play along. > Rather than sacrificing items, Nemelex permits you to place a wager. > Wagers can only be gold or one-of-a-kind items (artifacts, runes). > Having an active wager dramatically increases the odds that Nemelex > will want to play a game in a high tension situation. It will also > change the nature of his game: there will be some chance of you > receiving your wager and more, some chance of you breaking even (and > having your wager returned), and some chance of you losing everything. > > Nemelex can place wagers as well - this is how you obtain physical > decks. High-power decks are bet against high-value items on wager. At > high piety, he may give you a deck as a 'door prize' when you lose, > simply for being a good sport and keeping him entertained. When we redid Nemelex, we were taking our cues from the old incarnation, which was all about turning items into decks of cards. This can clearly be changed -- I don't know how Nemelex fans think of this. In any case, this is long term stuff, please add it to the wiki. Cheers, David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. 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