My thoughts on the above: Trog:
>* let's reduce berserk speed boost to haste levels: ?1.5 instead of ?2 I'd like it if it were the same number of player actions, but at 1.5 speed instead of 2 speed, so that monsters get more actions against you during your berserk time. >* perhaps we could reduce the slaying you get below might levels too? I'd like to see berserk stay equivalent to might in terms of damage. What about reducing the damage boost for both, but making Might last noticeably longer, since now it's a potion-only effect? Post-berserk fatigue should come with a combat penalty. This would also mean we could use the Fatigue status effect in more places: an undead that fatigues you (even getting hit once is dangerous, but after that, further hits are not as bad), or a necromancy spell causing it as a cost. Sif: >* Sif Muna's book gifts. With jpeg's randart book code, it's different > from scroll acquirement, while Vehumet's way is a copy of Kikubaaqudgha. > There are more drastic proposals like a virtual library, but for now, > let's try a small change. My suggestion: Sif is a 'harsh schoolteacher' god, who gifts knowledge directly into your mind as *she* sees fit. At any piety, this will train you in Spellcasting skill enough to get it to 1. At that point, or if you already had it on conversion, she starts gifting single spells until you have no slots left. Selective Amnesia, still costing piety, becomes a way for the player to ask Sif to give some freedom in spell choice. At higher piety, she will trust the player enough to gift books to learn under your own direction. I think we could lose the summoning aspects of Vehumet in the merge. They could perhaps be put to better use with another god, since they're minimal anyways (just wizardry, a cost reduction, piety on kills by summons, and summoning book gifts IIRC). TSO: I would be up for brainstorming how to rework the three good gods, as an extension of my earlier Zin efforts. My views may be more radical than some, but I am of the opinion that there is about two gods worth of interesting abilities there even though the flavor is certainly good. So let's start from my own take on that flavor: TSO: identified with the sun (gold), crusading, slaying evil, martial combat, honor Ely: identified with the moon (marble), healing, pacifism, protection Zin: identified with the stars (silver), preaching, order, purity, conversion To my mind, the common thread here is that they all want you to work with other people. Consider: TSO: Crusades were large undertakings, not lone journeys. Knights were the martial servants of lords, but did not fight alone, and could not even function without squires. Ely: Already strongly supports helping others via the pacifism mechanic. Should want you to heal others before you heal yourself - whether this is benevolent self-sacrifice or martyrdom. Zin: Should want you converting people to follow Zin, and then making sure they stay pure. We can think of the good gods as sharing something like this: for each of them, you are the shepherd and have your flock. How you fulfill those roles differs, but the good gods are entrusting you to put to use those that follow you to use in the way they see as holy. A game proposal, then: TSO: Mostly-human followers trickle in to join the crusade as you explore the dungeon. They are lower-tier paladins who become more martially competent and grow in power as they fight alongside you. To them, you are an inspiration; your deeds spur them on to acts of bravery. Ely: Pacifism converts many intelligent monsters to friendly pacifists who accompany you. Your invocations improve as the size of your flock grows, but each monster is on its own pilgrimage, and most will leave your side after a (long) time. However, a few will become dedicated priests instead, and gain healing abilities of their own. Zin: You must convert your own followers. They will stay with you for good, though if you stray from Zin's teachings, they may become neutral (or hostile, if you leave the god). Your recitations will give them boosts corresponding to the kind of enemy you're reciting against. Their own abilities will improve as they worship Zin alongside you. So, in each case, the followers begin as relatively mundane creatures but can improve to gain some of the god's lower-tier abilities (e.g., TSO's negative protection / healing on kills; Ely's minor healing; Zin's ???). I think this would be a good core to build off of if we do want to address the good gods as a group - perma-allies has clearly been shown to work with Beogh, but the design space has room for further efforts, and I find it to make a lot of sense to a) keep it a relatively god-only behavior b) take the good gods as similar in supporting it for slightly different reasons. Nemelex: One of the problems with decks is that there are few bad effects that can't be dealt with by drawing more cards. Summoning is the worst offender here: if you get hostile summons, you just use summon again. This is particularly problematic because decks are an unlimited resource (and summoning is the easiest kind of deck to get). If we want Nemelex to be balanced, we have to get serious about admitting some of his failings: * play can be quite tedious at times * very few people understand how the sacrifice minigame / gift timer works * unique and powerful effects (e.g., Crusade), but also powerful effects duplicating those of other gods (e.g., Pentagram card) * extremely, ridiculously scummy * far too easy to play conservatively, stacking all the important decks * abundance of useless decks that are simply pulled through to get piety A radical suggestion for Nemelex: he offers you the ability to play games in high-tension situations. These games should be semi-randomly generated, based on some common gambling games. Here are some examples: * 'Draw three cards - I pick one, then you pick one!' * 'Draw three cards - but you have to draw from the Deck of Punishment later!' * 'Let's play dice - beat me and win a deck of destruction!' * 'Interested in a game of roulette? Place your bets now!' Piety would come from participating in games, win or lose. Turning down a game carries a piety hit larger than the gain from playing one, particularly if you reject multiple games in a row. Rather than sacrificing items, Nemelex permits you to place a wager. Wagers can only be gold or one-of-a-kind items (artifacts, runes). Having an active wager dramatically increases the odds that Nemelex will want to play a game in a high tension situation. It will also change the nature of his game: there will be some chance of you receiving your wager and more, some chance of you breaking even (and having your wager returned), and some chance of you losing everything. Nemelex can place wagers as well - this is how you obtain physical decks. High-power decks are bet against high-value items on wager. At high piety, he may give you a deck as a 'door prize' when you lose, simply for being a good sport and keeping him entertained. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Crawl-ref-discuss mailing list Crawl-ref-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss
