Dear Oeyvind,
Well, I expressed just a more theoretical thought. There is a question
of identity conditions: Is the product providing the identity to the
activity, or the activity to the product? If the products are more
loosely coupled such as multiple recordings, reviews etc., obviously the
common identity they refer to is the activity experienced. If under my
hands happens to be the keyboard of my laptop, and I package the product
adequately, we tend to identify my writing by the produced text.
Currently, neither CRM nor FRBR gives a good answer to a common view
explaining the stages in between.
I consider here a more general concept of Expression than performance. I
am not concerned if painting is performing, but that painting is an
externalization of mental things as is theatre, singing and writing. I
argue that causal to any art form and literature is first the
brain-to-action process. This may or may not have a "self-contained
form" and may or may not end up in persistent "self-contained" forms.
Depending on the latter, I would like to be able to specialize down from
the same overarching concept, let's call it "externalization", better
than "expression" or "performance", which ultimately must comprise all
signals externalized that may ever appear or are reflected in the
products or by products or observations. I do not think that could be
disputed.
When someone is writing ever on an unfinished work, such as
Saint-Exupery's Citadelle, we may question if the unity and identity of
action is better than the unity of the text...
I am just thinking if we may need at some time such a general concept, a
nd what its limitations would be.
Cheers,
Martin
On 9/18/2018 3:19 PM, Øyvind Eide wrote:
Well, performances are usually not part of library or museum
collections. The theatre museums I have worked with collect artefacts,
texts, stage models etc. etc. but not performances. They do collect
traces of performances though: reviews, programmes, posters, stage
drawings, costumes, video recordings etc.
But once an information system is created the performances find their
natural place there. As they do in CRM and FRBR.
Another thing is the performative aspects of art forms traditionally
not seen as performative, such as literature. As far as I know this is
still a disputed area.
All the best,
Øyvind
Am 18.09.2018 um 11:54 schrieb Martin Doerr <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Dear George,
How nice!
I believe the concept of "Expression" as something permanent, i.e.,
the FRBR concept of it, actually confuses the problem. "Expression"
is to my understanding a process, an activity, and only in a second
meaning the product. I do not see any difference to lots of best
singers of the world performing in their bath rooms.
What is the point in knowing the absolutely greatest work of art? A
Zen master was asked what the most valuable thing in the world is. He
answered: the head of a dead cat. Why? because nobody would give a
price for it...;-)
We have discussed the "Expression Creation", the actually genuine
Expression, as a process of externalization, and attempt to
communicate something. I'd say things become culturally relevant by
their social impact, and that is what we document.
If we would generalize over that, the result of an "Expression
Creation" would be anything left on another carrier, be it in the
heart of an audience, or on paper, or any other form. If the identity
condition of such an Expression Creation is in the intention,
carriers lost in the process as in your example would qualify. On the
other side, if someone is eavesdropping on the bathroom song, we may
even then talk of an Expression, or? Then, the "creation" part is
more specific, and may be incidental or accidentally flawed.
Anyway, I think this view would greatly simplify things.
Cheers,
Martin
On 9/17/2018 10:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
I had this reference in mind, which I’ve been looking for for a long
time:
https://books.google.gr/books?id=8Nbqn-7RKpYC&pg=PA93&lpg=PA93&dq=woolfe+artist+napkin+water+painted+word&source=bl&ots=NLFB8BL-w9&sig=7HX0xB1GSR_l9D6TgsSKRCFoHyc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicu8WI58LdAhURaVAKHWZKBmoQ6AEwFXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=woolfe%20artist%20napkin%20water%20painted%20word&f=false
------------------------------------------------------
Dr. George Bruseker
R & D Engineer
Centre for Cultural Informatics
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
Science and Technology Park of Crete
Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
Tel.: +30 2810 391619 Fax: +30 2810 391638 E-mail:
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
URL: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
On Sep 17, 2018, at 9:10 PM, Martin Doerr <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 9/16/2018 3:49 PM, George Bruseker wrote:
Hi Thanasis,
Yes I would take it that that was the intention of the authors.
Scribbling your master piece in water on the back of a torn napkin
or so. So I would agree that the language should probably change
to reflect that.
Indeed, there are lots of inscriptions, texts written in notebooks
etc. Need not be so exotic. Probably many manuscripts are not
exclusive to one carrier.
But we have to check if in LRMoo it is already obsolete.
Cheers,
Martin
Cheers,
George
------------------------------------------------------
Dr. George Bruseker
R & D Engineer
Centre for Cultural Informatics
Institute of Computer Science
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
Science and Technology Park of Crete
Vassilika Vouton, P.O.Box 1385, GR-711 10 Heraklion, Crete, Greece
Tel.: +30 2810 391619 Fax: +30 2810 391638 E-mail:
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
URL:http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
On Sep 10, 2018, at 3:53 PM, Athanasios Velios
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear all,
I looked through the mailing list archive but could not find an
answer for:
Why is F4 Manifestation Singleton a child of E24 and not a child
of E22?
Its scope note starts with: "This class comprises physical
objects..."
and we are always talking about a carrier. Are there any examples of
features-carriers that I can't think of? If, when scratching a
poem on a
rocky mountain, the mountain is considered a carrier, then I think we
should update the scope note to reflect that.
All the best,
Thanasis
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| Email: [email protected] |
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Center for Cultural Informatics |
Information Systems Laboratory |
Institute of Computer Science |
Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) |
|
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GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece |
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