Erik Vorhes wrote:
>> Alan Gresley wrote:
>>
>>> My point is that you do not outline what risk. To say "when there is a
>>> much less riskier solution available" is repeating a mantra that appears
>>> in many places. It not based on reality but is more a warning to
>>> beginners that sending alternative styles to a particular browser is
>>> risker than sending the same style to all browsers.
>
> Well, it depends on the "hack." If it's something that would still
> validate (and though it feels unusual, the * html / *+html "hacks" fit
> in the "valid" category, as far as I can tell), it's probably not a
> big deal, unless other browsers that don't need the associated style
> information start understanding those selectors.
As I have previously stated, the element tree IE6 and IE7 and IE5/Win
and IE5/Mac is.
<hidden-container>
<html>
<head>...</head>
<body>...</body>
</html>
</hidden-container>
I quote someone (referring to the late 1990s),
----------------------------------------
I mean the fact that
* html {...}
Ever applied to anything was a bug. I wrote the original
selector-matching code that had this bug in it. We had a special hidden
"root container" node in our element tree for some internal reasons, and
I forgot to explicitly skip it in the selector node matching code. We
didn't discover this for years. :)
---------------------------------------
Other browsers do not have a *special hidden root container node* that
can be selected.
> As I recall, the *
> html "hack" was the center of some concern when the IE7 release was
> imminent, since it initially was going to recognize styles from that
> selector (even though it didn't necessarily need them)
The controversy was that Microsoft at that time wanted the web
development community to fully embrace the use of IE conditional
comments. The argument they use is flawed. How things have transpired
now with IE8 now correctly supporting CSS2.1 has allowed the web to
survive (without many broken pages) and move forwards towards true
interoperability.
[...]
>
> That said, my usual CSS development approach is as follows:
>
> 1. Write CSS that's not targeted to any specific browser (aside from
> -namespaced- properties).
> 2. Use conditional comments to solve any IE-specific problems.
> 3. Incorporate what I can back into the "universal" CSS to see if it
> breaks any other browsers.
> 4. If the IE stuff breaks any other browsers, put the culprits back in
> a conditional comment.
I must say that is a unusual and strange step.
> 5. If I'm short on time and/or have run into something that seems
> impossible to fix, use a javascript library like Dean Edwards' IE7.js
> or IE8.js (which you can get at <dean.edwards.name>).
> 6. If that doesn't work, try to approach the layout from a different
> direction.
> 7. Go back to step 1, and following.
>
> This process isn't as cumbersome as it sounds, but it's still
> time-consuming. At some point you may need to follow the path of least
> resistance, whatever that may be.
Rules, methodologies and etc..... :-)
Being one to do things my own way (the opposite path to least
resistance), my direction of development is to do what seemed impossible
to do at least 7 years ago,
<http://css-class.com/test/demos/popup-gallery1.htm>
and then simply hack whatever needs hacking for IE6- or IE7. One may do
many things with CSS but ones education to fully understand any
developmental problems must begin here,
<http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/>
and not here.
<http://www.google.com/>
> I choose not to use CSS hacks mostly because it doesn't fit into my
> workflow. I also have some philosophical issues with the "hack"
> approach, but nothing I've written is explicitly intended to convince
> you not to use CSS hacks. (Though I think it's easier not to use
> them.)
>
> Erik Vorhes (*not* Eric Meyer, if that would ever be an issue!)
Yes, Eric Meyer, not Eric Meyers.
Concerning browser implementers following standards and IE.
<http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/ie-chaos2.htm>
Does the web development community continue to code to propriety
standards or open standards?
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/intro/sgmltut.html#idx-HTML>
The web standard for HTML states,
"Information that appears between comments has no special meaning."
--
Alan http://css-class.com/
Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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