Hi, just to give you some perspective from
my experience…
I’ve been working in IT for the last
6 yrs and really tried to move to a Java environment. People said develop in your free time to
get java working experience, but easier said than done if you have a job taking
more time than the normal 8-5 job.
I’m not looking for a Java position
anymore and I’ve decided to move on and I’m making other plans for
my future.
The point I’m trying to make is,
that in the current java market in CT, it very difficult for a junior to enter
the market. Loads of potential
great java developers (not taking about myself) will be lost to other
development environments because of the fact that people who really want to
work in Java can’t enter the market. And in the long run it’s going to hurt
the general java market as cpy might not find suitable Java developers for
their needs and look at other solutions.
Regards, Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 05 July 2006 12:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [CTJUG Forum] Re:
Employment
Well put, that is an accurate summation of the
situation.
On
that basis then, those companies which hire people ready to roll do not have
that much credibility when complaining about not being able to find good
people. There are not enough good people because there are not enough companies
willing to take on newbies and make them good.
Companies
need to take a long term view, not that easy I know, and hire someone who is
sharp (has good problem solving and thinking skills) but does not yet have
the knowledge for them to hit the ground running. Ability (intelligence and
problem solving), I think, carries a higher weighting than
experience/knowledge. Knowledge can be gained from a book and experience comes
with time, but ability comes from within. Invest in the person and somehow tie
them up for one, maybe two years if possible - the ideal approach in this
regard is to find them while in their last year of university.
That's
from the employers perspective.
From
the employee's perspective:
When
a company takes on a junior and provides them with a year of experience, the
employee may not yet have performed sufficiently to move up a bracket -
however, based on that employees one year of experience they can now go and
sell themselves to another employer as a "higher bracket" developer
even though they are in fact not worth the amount which the new employer is
willing to pay. It is a result of the "contracting" approach that
companies use, but I'm not sure that it is in the developers long term
interests to employ this strategy.
I think this phenomenon is the result of the industry... a lot of us do 3-6-12
month contracts - (so far I still have to get a permanent job offer myself) -
the whole nature of the coding bussiness is that you come in do the work and
disappear when done. (The up side is that you sometimes get paid a bit better
than permanent staff - but that is another issue..).
As a result no long term relationships develops (as in for example investment
of time) between employers and coders - the traditional idea of doing
"apprenticeship" time falls away and you have to deliver the movent
you start working. Since many big companies are frustrated with the idea of
hiring staff that does not deliver the moment they step into work they resort
to using agents... who are just a cover for harder working/firing conditions,
and get some of the fat in return. They also don't want to deliver
unexperienced coders, (= unhappy emplyer and no fat) so there is no chance for
you there.
So in the modern version of the apprenticeship is as follows: eventually you
find someone with a tight enough budget to give you a try (he knows you are
desparate and is willing to exploit that ! )--- hold on tight (for the lowest
salary ever and the longest working hours) -- but after that you have the
experience and are able to ask for what is due....
my say for the day..C
On 7/5/06, FBulovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Clint Lewis wrote:
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT
>
> So what does a fresh graduate with no experience fall under and also how
> does a graduate become a junior if companies are looking for Juniors
> with 1 years experience?
>
> Kind Regards
> Clint Lewis
>
>
>
> FBulovic wrote:
> > Qualification and more than one year of development in Java will do.
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
There is few options:
1. find employer which does not require experience
2. join some open source project (or start yours) so that you can gain
experience
3. invent required experience
I am not working on that project and I am not making any decisions
related to it (I work on Symbian OS in C++), but about experience I can
tell you that I am willing to give job to any decent coder and usually
people fresh from university need some time to become coders. On the
other hand some project managers (all of them) just trying to finish
job and they do not find time, founding and so on to introduce people
without work experience to their companies. Again who would risk money
and time to educate beginner when in year or so that beginner wants to
move to another company (naturally looking for better salary than one
which goes with junior position).
Regards
FBulovic
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