Oh! ok thanks, sorry I read my ID wrong it said South African. Whats a Wheezo?
Later Guy. On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 04:33 -0700, Java Mad wrote: > thats just the thingy dion > > it also depends on what AFRICANS you talking about > > Cuase it was reckoned in the past that those AFRICANS leave the south > of AFRICA > for europe or even USA etc due to the fact of AA (Affirmative Action) > you Weezo > > Moving overseas is easier said than done > But the disadvantaged are stuck here since we dont have money. > Ive been too PTA and thats been difficult if you dont have money. > Nobody will let you live or let you lodge if you didnt pay in advance. > A friend of mine went to Brittian and he must have R50 000 > So think before you flame Wheezo > > dion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > AAAAARRGGHHHH!!! > We are all African, otherwise they live overseas. Not so! > > Get a different perspective and attitude, guy. > Go code something!!! do some work, just stop polluting the > forum, become > constructive. > > > On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 04:08 -0700, Java Mad wrote: > > nicely put! > > > > but may i ask you guys and gals how did you get there.... > > i think there is a color issue involved in this issue too > > > > may i get a raise of hands on who white,coloured, blank and > indian > > > > my premonitions tell me that 90% is white gathered from the > names on > > the list > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Well put, that is an accurate summation of the situation. > > > > On that basis then, those companies which hire people ready > to > > roll do not have that much credibility when complaining > about > > not being able to find good people. There are not enough > good > > people because there are not enough companies willing to > take > > on newbies and make them good. > > > > Companies need to take a long term view, not that easy I > know, > > and hire someone who is sharp (has good problem solving and > > thinking skills) but does not yet have the knowledge for > them > > to hit the ground running. Ability (intelligence and problem > > solving), I think, carries a higher weighting than > > experience/knowledge. Knowledge can be gained from a book > and > > experience comes with time, but ability comes from within. > > Invest in the person and somehow tie them up for one, maybe > > two years if possible - the ideal approach in this regard is > > to find them while in their last year of university. > > > > That's from the employers perspective. > > > > From the employee's perspective: > > When a company takes on a junior and provides them with a > year > > of experience, the employee may not yet have performed > > sufficiently to move up a bracket - however, based on that > > employees one year of experience they can now go and sell > > themselves to another employer as a "higher bracket" > developer > > even though they are in fact not worth the amount which the > > new employer is willing to pay. It is a result of the > > "contracting" approach that companies use, but I'm not sure > > that it is in the developers long term interests to employ > > this strategy. > > > > > > > > > > "Carl Woermann" > > > > Sent by: > > [email protected] > > 2006/07/05 09:37 AM > > Please respond to > > [email protected] > > > > > > To > > [email protected] > > cc > > > > Subject > > [CTJUG Forum] > > Re: Employment > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this phenomenon is the result of the industry... a > lot > > of us do 3-6-12 month contracts - (so far I still have to > get > > a permanent job offer myself) - the whole nature of the > coding > > bussiness is that you come in do the work and disappear when > > done. (The up side is that you sometimes get paid a bit > better > > than permanent staff - but that is another issue..). > > > > As a result no long term relationships develops (as in for > > example investment of time) between employers and coders - > > the traditional idea of doing "apprenticeship" time falls > > away and you have to deliver the movent you start working. > > Since many big companies are frustrated with the idea of > > hiring staff that does not deliver the moment they step into > > work they resort to using agents... who are just a cover for > > harder working/firing conditions, and get some of the fat in > > return. They also don't want to deliver unexperienced > coders, > > (= unhappy emplyer and no fat) so there is no chance for you > > there. > > > > So in the modern version of the apprenticeship is as > follows: > > eventually you find someone with a tight enough budget to > give > > you a try (he knows you are desparate and is willing to > > exploit that ! )--- hold on tight (for the lowest salary > ever > > and the longest working hours) -- but after that you have > the > > experience and are able to ask for what is due.... > > my say for the day..C > > > > On 7/5/06, FBulovic wrote: > > > > > > Clint Lewis wrote: > > > FOOD FOR THOUGHT > > > > > > So what does a fresh graduate with no experience fall > under > > and also how > > > does a graduate become a junior if companies are looking > for > > Juniors > > > with 1 years experience? > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > Clint Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > FBulovic wrote: > > > > Qualification and more than one year of development in > > Java will do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is few options: > > 1. find employer which does not require experience > > 2. join some open source project (or start yours) so that > you > > can gain > > experience > > 3. invent required experience > > > > I am not working on that project and I am not making any > > decisions > > related to it (I work on Symbian OS in C++), but about > > experience I can > > tell you that I am willing to give job to any decent coder > and > > usually > > people fresh from university need some time to become > coders. > > On the > > other hand some project managers (all of them) just trying > to > > finish > > job and they do not find time, founding and so on to > introduce > > people > > without work experience to their companies. Again who would > > risk money > > and time to educate beginner when in year or so that > beginner > > wants to > > move to another company (naturally looking for better salary > > than one > > which goes with junior position). > > > > Regards > > FBulovic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disclaimer > > Sanlam Life Insurance Limited Reg no 1998/021121/06 - > Licensed > > Financial Services Provider > > Disclaimer and Directors > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it > > free. > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CTJUG Forum" group. 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