AAAAARRGGHHHH!!! We are all African, otherwise they live overseas. Not so!
Get a different perspective and attitude, guy. Go code something!!! do some work, just stop polluting the forum, become constructive. On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 04:08 -0700, Java Mad wrote: > nicely put! > > but may i ask you guys and gals how did you get there.... > i think there is a color issue involved in this issue too > > may i get a raise of hands on who white,coloured, blank and indian > > my premonitions tell me that 90% is white gathered from the names on > the list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Well put, that is an accurate summation of the situation. > > On that basis then, those companies which hire people ready to > roll do not have that much credibility when complaining about > not being able to find good people. There are not enough good > people because there are not enough companies willing to take > on newbies and make them good. > > Companies need to take a long term view, not that easy I know, > and hire someone who is sharp (has good problem solving and > thinking skills) but does not yet have the knowledge for them > to hit the ground running. Ability (intelligence and problem > solving), I think, carries a higher weighting than > experience/knowledge. Knowledge can be gained from a book and > experience comes with time, but ability comes from within. > Invest in the person and somehow tie them up for one, maybe > two years if possible - the ideal approach in this regard is > to find them while in their last year of university. > > That's from the employers perspective. > > From the employee's perspective: > When a company takes on a junior and provides them with a year > of experience, the employee may not yet have performed > sufficiently to move up a bracket - however, based on that > employees one year of experience they can now go and sell > themselves to another employer as a "higher bracket" developer > even though they are in fact not worth the amount which the > new employer is willing to pay. It is a result of the > "contracting" approach that companies use, but I'm not sure > that it is in the developers long term interests to employ > this strategy. > > > > > "Carl Woermann" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent by: > [email protected] > 2006/07/05 09:37 AM > Please respond to > [email protected] > > > To > [email protected] > cc > > Subject > [CTJUG Forum] > Re: Employment > > > > > > > > > I think this phenomenon is the result of the industry... a lot > of us do 3-6-12 month contracts - (so far I still have to get > a permanent job offer myself) - the whole nature of the coding > bussiness is that you come in do the work and disappear when > done. (The up side is that you sometimes get paid a bit better > than permanent staff - but that is another issue..). > > As a result no long term relationships develops (as in for > example investment of time) between employers and coders - > the traditional idea of doing "apprenticeship" time falls > away and you have to deliver the movent you start working. > Since many big companies are frustrated with the idea of > hiring staff that does not deliver the moment they step into > work they resort to using agents... who are just a cover for > harder working/firing conditions, and get some of the fat in > return. They also don't want to deliver unexperienced coders, > (= unhappy emplyer and no fat) so there is no chance for you > there. > > So in the modern version of the apprenticeship is as follows: > eventually you find someone with a tight enough budget to give > you a try (he knows you are desparate and is willing to > exploit that ! )--- hold on tight (for the lowest salary ever > and the longest working hours) -- but after that you have the > experience and are able to ask for what is due.... > my say for the day..C > > On 7/5/06, FBulovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Clint Lewis wrote: > > FOOD FOR THOUGHT > > > > So what does a fresh graduate with no experience fall under > and also how > > does a graduate become a junior if companies are looking for > Juniors > > with 1 years experience? > > > > Kind Regards > > Clint Lewis > > > > > > > > FBulovic wrote: > > > Qualification and more than one year of development in > Java will do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is few options: > 1. find employer which does not require experience > 2. join some open source project (or start yours) so that you > can gain > experience > 3. invent required experience > > I am not working on that project and I am not making any > decisions > related to it (I work on Symbian OS in C++), but about > experience I can > tell you that I am willing to give job to any decent coder and > usually > people fresh from university need some time to become coders. > On the > other hand some project managers (all of them) just trying to > finish > job and they do not find time, founding and so on to introduce > people > without work experience to their companies. Again who would > risk money > and time to educate beginner when in year or so that beginner > wants to > move to another company (naturally looking for better salary > than one > which goes with junior position). > > Regards > FBulovic > > > > > > > Disclaimer > Sanlam Life Insurance Limited Reg no 1998/021121/06 - Licensed > Financial Services Provider > Disclaimer and Directors > > ______________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it > free. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CTJUG Forum" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/CTJUG-Forum For the ctjug home page see http://www.ctjug.org.za -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
