thats just the thingy dion
it also depends on what AFRICANS you talking about
Cuase it was reckoned in the past that those AFRICANS leave the south of AFRICA
for europe or even USA etc due to the fact of AA (Affirmative Action) you Weezo
Moving overseas is easier said than done
But the disadvantaged are stuck here since we dont have money.
Ive been too PTA and thats been difficult if you dont have money.
Nobody will let you live or let you lodge if you didnt pay in advance.
A friend of mine went to Brittian and he must have R50 000
So think before you flame Wheezo
dion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
dion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
AAAAARRGGHHHH!!!
We are all African, otherwise they live overseas. Not so!
Get a different perspective and attitude, guy.
Go code something!!! do some work, just stop polluting the forum, become
constructive.
On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 04:08 -0700, Java Mad wrote:
> nicely put!
>
> but may i ask you guys and gals how did you get there....
> i think there is a color issue involved in this issue too
>
> may i get a raise of hands on who white,coloured, blank and indian
>
> my premonitions tell me that 90% is white gathered from the names on
> the list
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Well put, that is an accurate summation of the situation.
>
> On that basis then, those companies which hire people ready to
> roll do not have that much credibility when complaining about
> not being able to find good people. There are not enough good
> people because there are not enough companies willing to take
> on newbies and make them good.
>
> Companies need to take a long term view, not that easy I know,
> and hire someone who is sharp (has good problem solving and
> thinking skills) but does not yet have the knowledge for them
> to hit the ground running. Ability (intelligence and problem
> solving), I think, carries a higher weighting than
> experience/knowledge. Knowledge can be gained from a book and
> experience comes with time, but ability comes from within.
> Invest in the person and somehow tie them up for one, maybe
> two years if possible - the ideal approach in this regard is
> to find them while in their last year of university.
>
> That's from the employers perspective.
>
> From the employee's perspective:
> When a company takes on a junior and provides them with a year
> of experience, the employee may not yet have performed
> sufficiently to move up a bracket - however, based on that
> employees one year of experience they can now go and sell
> themselves to another employer as a "higher bracket" developer
> even though they are in fact not worth the amount which the
> new employer is willing to pay. It is a result of the
> "contracting" approach that companies use, but I'm not sure
> that it is in the developers long term interests to employ
> this strategy.
>
>
>
>
> "Carl Woermann"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by:
> [email protected]
> 2006/07/05 09:37 AM
> Please respond to
> [email protected]
>
>
> To
> [email protected]
> cc
>
> Subject
> [CTJUG Forum]
> Re: Employment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I think this phenomenon is the result of the industry... a lot
> of us do 3-6-12 month contracts - (so far I still have to get
> a permanent job offer myself) - the whole nature of the coding
> bussiness is that you come in do the work and disappear when
> done. (The up side is that you sometimes get paid a bit better
> than permanent staff - but that is another issue..).
>
> As a result no long term relationships develops (as in for
> example investment of time) between employers and coders -
> the traditional idea of doing "apprenticeship" time falls
> away and you have to deliver the movent you start working.
> Since many big companies are frustrated with the idea of
> hiring staff that does not deliver the moment they step into
> work they resort to using agents... who are just a cover for
> harder working/firing conditions, and get some of the fat in
> return. They also don't want to deliver unexperienced coders,
> (= unhappy emplyer and no fat) so there is no chance for you
> there.
>
> So in the modern version of the apprenticeship is as follows:
> eventually you find someone with a tight enough budget to give
> you a try (he knows you are desparate and is willing to
> exploit that ! )--- hold on tight (for the lowest salary ever
> and the longest working hours) -- but after that you have the
> experience and are able to ask for what is due....
> my say for the day..C
>
> On 7/5/06, FBulovic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>
> Clint Lewis wrote:
> > FOOD FOR THOUGHT
> >
> > So what does a fresh graduate with no experience fall under
> and also how
> > does a graduate become a junior if companies are looking for
> Juniors
> > with 1 years experience?
> >
> > Kind Regards
> > Clint Lewis
> >
> >
> >
> > FBulovic wrote:
> > > Qualification and more than one year of development in
> Java will do.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
> There is few options:
> 1. find employer which does not require experience
> 2. join some open source project (or start yours) so that you
> can gain
> experience
> 3. invent required experience
>
> I am not working on that project and I am not making any
> decisions
> related to it (I work on Symbian OS in C++), but about
> experience I can
> tell you that I am willing to give job to any decent coder and
> usually
> people fresh from university need some time to become coders.
> On the
> other hand some project managers (all of them) just trying to
> finish
> job and they do not find time, founding and so on to introduce
> people
> without work experience to their companies. Again who would
> risk money
> and time to educate beginner when in year or so that beginner
> wants to
> move to another company (naturally looking for better salary
> than one
> which goes with junior position).
>
> Regards
> FBulovic
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Disclaimer
> Sanlam Life Insurance Limited Reg no 1998/021121/06 - Licensed
> Financial Services Provider
> Disclaimer and Directors
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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