Comments in Red, although much of this argument now falls into the
"who cares?" category.
Alister Christie
Computers for People
Ph: 04 471 1849 Fax: 04 471 1266
http://www.salespartner.co.nz
PO Box 13085
Johnsonville
Wellington
On 22/10/2010 10:38 a.m., Jolyon Smith wrote:
Adding green. J
*From:* delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *David Brennan
*Sent:* Friday, 22 October 2010 09:55
*To:* 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Specials
My comments in a lovely purple. ;-)
*From:* delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz
[mailto:delphi-boun...@delphi.org.nz] *On Behalf Of *Jolyon Smith
*Sent:* Friday, 22 October 2010 8:53 a.m.
*To:* 'NZ Borland Developers Group - Delphi List'
*Subject:* Re: [DUG] Delphi Specials
Ø Aw nuts you are just being a stirrer.
Why is pointing out facts considered stirring?
You obviously have pretty strong feelings about it Jolyon but you
jumped on John pretty hard and if I was him I would certainly feel you
were being deliberately antagonistic. You didn’t just point out facts,
you had an axe to grind.
Well, as did John I’d say. Sauce for the goose too rich for the gander ?
Ø What I am saying is do not punish Borland and Embarcadero for making
a product that was reliable and well usable for 10+ years. Reward
them by spending a small amount of money to keep them in business. And
into the bargain enjoy a much better version of Delphi.
How about Embarcadero punishing their customers for not having
provided compelling reasons to upgrade?
Aren’t they two sides of the same issue? Either
Embarcadero/Codegear/Borland haven’t added anything to Delphi since
version 5 OR version 5 was so good that you didn’t need any of the
things they added.
I’m not following the point here.
1 – John passed judgement (“nuts”) on somebody elses upgrade (or lack
of) decisions based on his OWN experience and position.
2 – I merely offered that perhaps other people may be in a different
position and that the “nuts” thing is to make judgements on others
without taking their position into account (and using inaccurate
information in the process).
You believe the former and refuse to accept that perhaps part of the
reason is that v5 was so good.
How on earth do you reach that conclusion?
_The original poster_ hadn’t upgraded since Delphi 4 – by definition
they haven’t felt the need to upgrade. Arguing about whether they
were given reasons to upgrade is meaningless.
And I simply pointed out that John’s suggestion that they upgrade NOW
was to ignore the fact that Embarcadero have slammed the door on that
option for the original poster. They no longer have the choice of
upgrading, they are now faced with having to buy a NEW USER license,
from scratch.
Is that grinding an axe? I see it correcting a point of accuracy.
On which score: I myself purchased Delphi 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7
licenses for myself. I now use Delphi 2006 and 2010 licenses provided
by my employer but have stopped spending _my own_ money on Delphi.
The work I do with Delphi in my own time brings me no financial
reward, so the cost of upgrades is just that – a cost. Not an investment.
I’m guessing you have never received an OEM version of Windows then? I
believe most copies of Windows sold are OEM which are locked (in
theory) to the computer they are sold with.
That “in theory” part is important. The “Windows Me” license I
upgraded to XP from was “in theory” an OEM license tied to the machine
it was purchased with. But my XP Upgrade installation media of course
knew nothing about that and so did not complain when I installed in on
the subsequent machines, having provided suitable original media for
it to validate upgrade eligibility at that time.
Compare and contrast with purchasing a valid license for Delphi and
then having to go around the houses and jump through numerous hoops in
order for it to acknowledge that yes indeed I am entitled to
“activate” and use the software I have bought and paid for.
Hmmm, saying that you find it easy to violate a license agreement for
one piece of software (if that was what you saying about your XP upgrade
license), to argue that that it should be easier to install some other
product legitimately is a bit dubious. Personally I hate software
activation with some centralized server (what happens when the company
goes out of business), but have never had any trouble installing Delphi
on a machine - getting our products to compile in it is a different
question entirely however ;-)
And why do you feel so less inclined to reward Microsoft for making a
reliable, well usable product when doing so costs far, FAR less than
rewarding Borland (who produced a couple of REAL stinkers, products
that were neither reliable nor even barely usable, over the years)
Sounds like John has purchased 8 copies of Windows, you don’t think
that is rewarding them?
In his own words, he is grumpy about it. I observe that he is grumpy
about rewarding Microsoft and yet is happy, and _keen to encourage_
others, to reward Embarcadero whilst simultaneously highlighting that
they provide a less generous service in a specific area, in return for
that reward yet seemingly perceiving this as providing higher value?
Again, is it grinding an axe to mention that Delphi updates cease when
a new version is released, while Windows updates do not?
Borland blew it in a major way around Delphi 8/2005, no question about
that and I can understand punishing them for it.
And more recently (at the risk of getting sidetracked) Embarcadero
have blown it again (imho) with addressing Unicode and 64-bit
separately, creating TWO significant barriers to upgraders and also
failing to make good on indications of 64-bit delivery and introducing
new priorities and changing roadmaps and product direction without
updating those roadmaps until after the fact.
I'm not overly keen on Mac and 64-bit support (although I consider them
nice to have), so my opinion on this is not very strong. I don't think
they have blown it, but certainly they have disappointed many people.
The reason we don't have these yet is they don't want to generate
another Delphi 8/2005. My understanding is that Mac support is
effectively done, but 64 bit support still requires more work. If
anyone is passionate about these, they should get involved in the beta
program. I personally am far more interested in iPhone and Android support.
But at some point it becomes cutting off your nose to spite your
face... anyone who develops seriously in Delphi needs Delphi to be a
viable commercial product and that means being willing to pony up for
some money occasionally in my opinion.
You saw the part where I complain that they do not provide an option
for me to spend the money that is worth it to me?
I WANT to spend money with Embarcadero, but they refuse to make
available a product that suits the use to which I wish to put it at a
price that is reasonable and that I can afford when set alongside all
of the other demands on my financial resources.
I Fully agree, Delphi is waaaay to expensive for hobbyists and casual
users. A $100 version or free version is what is required, but how to
do this is a difficult question.
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