It seems that your tactic of argument is to discredit me at every level in
order to show your superiority of sorts. Let me set this straight, I am not
attempting to say that I am an authority on ASF or that I know how things
should be run. I also was not attempting to vilify you in front of the board
or vilify you in any way. My complaint is that your rhetoric is
unprofessional; and as a representative of the board the language you use is,
plainly, casting a bad light on the ASF.
I understand all of your concerns and was not attempting to minimize them in
any way; they are legitimate concerns. The way you are handling them is what I
am concerned with and the tone you take is what I believe is helping divide the
community. Being the “villain” as you say is what is the problem. If you cast
yourself as the villain as a representative of the foundation you are then
making the foundation look bad.
Lastly, I may not have a vote, but I do have a voice. Everyone in the
community does and can be heard, if not then it isn’t much of a community at
all. I wouldn’t have you voted off the board nor do I want you to be voted off
the board, I have not enough information to make a sound decision in that
regard.
All I ask if for some common professionalism and courtesy, nothing more.
On 11/4/16, 4:46 PM, "Chris Mattmann" <mattm...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi Russ,
Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the villain when it comes to
protecting
those same ideals you cite regarding Apache in your below thread. You see
I’ve been
around since 2004 and elected by the membership to the Board for the last
three years
based on merit, and contributions towards those ideals over a decade of the
ASF.
I’ve been around longer than Apache Cassandra and this community and fully
intend
for that to continue. My job is not to only care about Cassandra. It’s to
ensure that the
ASF is a vendor neutral ground for ALL of its projects. You see I actually
understand and
have read what’s required of me to serve the membership of the ASF and its
communities.
I take this VERY seriously. Perhaps more than you know.
You see the other problem with your complaint about me – is that
unfortunately you
do not have a voice to act on that complaint. You won’t have a vote in the
next Apache
Board election. You won’t have a vote in the next Members election. And
*that* is
the rub. I wouldn’t even care if you did or not and you voted against me on
the ballot.
If the Apache Cassandra PMC or community cared enough about you or your
contributions
to the project, you would have been made a committer, or PMC member, long
ago, and
heck you would have even had a chance to become an ASF member where you
could do
more than simply voice your displeasure with my actions, you would be able
to vote with
your feet against my tyranny of trying to make this project’s management
committee
understand their responsibilities for the ASF. I don’t even consider your
requests to have
me vilified in front of the Board something that would disqualify you for
membership in
the PMC or committee. If you have been making contributions, even
discussion threads,
answering questions, etc., to the point of your prior emails including this
one – why haven’t
you been elected to have a binding voice within the project? Please ask
yourself that.
In fact, please ask yourself – what is a “Cassandra MVP” compared to a
member of the
ASF which is home to the project? Also please go look at all the people
I’ve been privy and
voted on granting membership to within the foundation since 2011, go look
at some of the
functioning and healthy projects that don’t have a problem with vendor
neutrality at the
ASF, and *then* come and talk to me about how my professional and character
isn’t such
to stand on the board of the ASF. Again, I’ll wait.
If it’s a hostile request to ask that a potentially inflammatory Twitter
discussion that I attempted
to bring about to the *source of the project’s discussion here at the ASF*
and for a mail summarizing
that Twitter discussion to be moderated through within 12 hours, and
for the PMC of an Apache project to understand its commitments regarding
having
geographically diverse moderators for their Apache lists; and if it’s a
hostile request to
ask that all members of the community including those non committers and/or
PMC
that take to Twitter to voice their concerns when they are not sure of even
where the
canonical discussion for the project is have a voice here on the canonical
lists for the project
then there is something fundamentally wrong with the community. I will
assert again based
on my reading of the facts including archives, code, discussions here and
outside of the ASF, abuse
of trademarks, vendor non-neutrality, tea leaves and the collective WHOLE
of those things that my initial
request to bring the conversation on list - that was met with the usual
random drive by vitriol and my follow
up asking how in the bleeping world there were at least 3 emails
questioning whether or not an email
should be moderated though - was warranted.
I state this as someone who has seen Apache projects come and go and will
continue to see that, even ones at the same level of interest as Cassandra
(and much
much more too as well). If it’s hostile for a Board member to drive the
discussions to
the mailing list instead of outside sources, then my apologies for my
hostility. You will
continue to get that apology as I continue to do my job and what I signed
up to do as an
ASF board member in terms of maintaining that vendor neutrality,
irrespective of whether
or not people don’t like my directness, frankness, and discussion.
Chris
On 11/4/16, 1:09 PM, "Russell Bradberry" <rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote:
- ... we are arguing whether to f'ing moderate it through. Wow. Great
job.
- Do you think it's healthy to send emails trying to talk shit
instead
of ...
- ... project? Or is Twitter the official list now? Go ahead, I'll
wait.
Given your behavior and rhetoric on this thread, I believe you lack the
professionalism and character to be a board member of anything, let
alone
representing the Apache Software Foundation and it's ideals. I've CC'd
the
rest of the Apache board because I would like to formally complain about
your divisive rhetoric and overall unprofessional conduct within this
mailing list.
This list, and community, are made up of individuals and volunteers. I
believe, attacking them, even though you believe you may have been
attacked, detracts from the conversation and elevates tension in an
already
tense community. I encourage others to chime in if I am misreading
here. I
personally feel that someone acting in a leadership capacity, such as a
board member, should be held to a higher standard of professionalism and
conduct when doing business; whether it is with their board member hat
on
or not. I would hate for it to be assumed that the entire Apache board
encourages, promotes, or even acts in this manner.
-Russ
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 1:18 PM Mattmann, Chris A (3010) <
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Mark Thomas got it done ✅
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jason Brown <jasedbr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > s/sis/is
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Jason Brown <jasedbr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Chris,
> >>
> >> Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis the ticket I filed:
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12858.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> -Jason
> >>
> >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Chris Mattmann
<mattm...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have apmail karma and can add moderators.
> >>>
> >>> Jason I can add you - please confirm you would like to be added.
Did
> you
> >>> file the ticket - if so point me to it. If you haven't yet, no
worries
> I
> >>> can still add you. Let me know. Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>> On 2016-11-04 09:54 (-0700), Jason Brown <jasedbr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Gary,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've just started looking into the moderator component due to
this
> >>> thread;
> >>>> I admit I did not know about it before (my fault). Yes, I would
like
> to
> >>> be
> >>>> added. Apparently, I need to file an INFRA ticket (as per
> >>>>
https://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#mailing-list-moderators),
> >>> which
> >>>> I will do in the next few minutes.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jason
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Gary Dusbabek
<gdusba...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one with moderator
privs. Any
> >>> other
> >>>>> committer/PMCs interested?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sorry, it's a chore to begin with and I've been traveling this
week.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gary.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Chris Mattmann
<mattm...@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Folks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kelly Sommers sent a message to dev@cassandra and I'm trying to
> >>> figure
> >>>>>> out if it's in moderation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Can the moderators speak up?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
