Hi Sage,

Thanks for this.

When I thought of why to provide laptops for interns, I thought of the 
challenges of compiling a large code base. I thought of a possible solution, 
which is using virtual machines (managed by the mentor organization) to do the 
heavy lifting. Obviously, this would mean that the intern would need a laptop 
and internet access but would not need a fully up-to-date laptop.

I'm not quibbling, just looking for more insight.

Thanks,

Craig

> On Jun 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Sage Sharp <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> The short answer is yes, the ASF could provide laptops to selected interns.
> 
> I'm setting the boundary that this thread *NOT* devolve into a discussion
> of where the funds for those laptops come from. Please create a *separate
> thread* for discussions about that. Let's keep this thread on the topic of
> what sending laptops would look like, what incentive that provides, and the
> known pitfalls.
> 
> Mozilla already provides laptops to selected interns. It's the only
> Outreachy community to do so. Mozilla provides laptops because compiling
> the massive Firefox code base is very slow and/or impossible on older
> laptops. I'm not sure how they work around that issue in the application
> phase, but I can ask the Mozilla coordinators.
> 
> Word about how the Mozilla interns get a laptop seemed to spread quickly to
> applicants from Indian universities (Outreachy's largest demographic).
> Applicants are very excited about the possibility of getting a laptop, so
> much that they often search for Mozilla projects to apply to first. Mozilla
> also has several other things that make them one of the more popular
> communities for applicants, including a welcoming community, mostly web
> development projects, and accepting a large number of interns.
> 
> There are some issues on Mozilla's side with sending a laptop. They often
> get held up in customs. One intern from India did not get the laptop until
> the internship was over.
> 
> That means Mozilla wants to lock down their intern selections as early as
> possible in order to get their interns' address for laptop shipping. They
> have to bend Outreachy's rule about not talking about intern selections
> until the intern announcement date. They send interns an email asking for
> their address to send "some Mozilla swag". I say it's bending the rule
> because some applicants may guess asking for their address means they were
> selected as an intern.
> 
> Giving the laptop to an intern directly is a way to avoid long customs
> delays. If all the interns attend an ASF event during their first weeks, a
> laptop could be given to them there. It also has the added benefit of
> immediately connecting interns to the community.
> 
> The only problem with in-person events is getting a visa in time. That's
> impossible enough for Indian interns that Mozilla has simply stopped
> inviting them to events on a short notice.
> 
> I've thought some about what it would take for Outreachy to provide laptops
> for all 40+ interns. Sadly I think that budget number is out of our reach.
> If it was possible, we could try to work with a laptop supplier that ships
> directly within India. Or give interns enough of a stipend to buy one
> themselves.
> 
> A laptop itself may not solve all the barriers interns face. Some Indian
> schools impose an evening curfew for all women students, in order to
> protect them from gendered street violence. However, that means they have
> less hours in the computer lab than the male students. Some of the women's
> dorms do not have wireless internet. Interns from both India and Africa
> often face power or internet outages. Outreachy mentors are expected to be
> lienent when that happens.
> 
> That's a brain dump of what I know about sending laptops to Outreachy
> interns. Let me know what questions you have!
> 
> Sage Sharp
> Outreachy Organizers
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 7:47 AM Alex Harui <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Can I get a summary of all of these Outreachy threads?  I'm not on
>> private@diversity and I think I've read every email on this list, but I'm
>> seeing numbers like $10.5K being discussed and I have no clue where that
>> number came from.  I'm on fundraising@ as well and still don't recall any
>> source for those numbers.  Also, I thought that there was more than one
>> entity that was willing to donate directly to Outreachy and there was only
>> one or two ASF sponsors who were unable to redirect their money directly to
>> Outreachy, so I don't understand why we are still having these long
>> discussions.
>> 
>> I thought that if some entity was to donate money directly to Outreachy
>> that there were no objections from anybody even if it benefited one or a
>> few ASF projects and not others.  I would hope that would be the
>> recommended workflow.
>> 
>> If it turns out there are some entities that are ok with the money they
>> donated to the ASF going to Outreachy but for some reason can't directly
>> donate to Outreachy, I would hope that we would make it clear that this
>> workflow is not our recommended workflow but we would redirect some of
>> their money to Outreachy and either let Outreachy pick which ASF project
>> gets an intern, or can we document somewhere that this money was donated
>> "on behalf of Entity X".
>> 
>> And then, IMO, the ASF is not paying for code.  Can we all agree to that
>> and get going on Outreachy?
>> 
>> It was interesting to see it pointed out that there is a financial barrier
>> to entry at the ASF.  It would be nice if the ASF could find a way to help
>> lower that barrier without "paying for code", but maybe we should put that
>> in its own thread and spend more time brainstorming on that while we get
>> going on Outreachy.  IMO, the ASF has other barriers as well.  Every ASF
>> project I've looked at is huge compared to many of the projects I've seen
>> on Github, so the learning curve may be tilted against inexperienced
>> programmers and they may need a more expensive computer to build the source
>> without it affecting the interns productivity.   But even then, the
>> entities donating directly to Outreachy could fund that more expensive
>> computer.  The ASF should not feel obligated to take on smaller projects
>> just to make Outreachy interns more successful.    Contributing code to the
>> ASF is more like becoming a commercial truck driver, contributing to GitHub
>> is more like becoming a ride-share driver.
>> 
>> One thought on the financial barrier before I forget:  the ASF offers VMs
>> to projects.  Could they offer laptops as well?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> -Alex
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Craig L Russell
[email protected]

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