Interesting idea.  And then a decent but inexpensive chromebook would do
the trick nicely.  They can even run debian in development mode.

On Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 10:42 Craig Russell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Sage,
>
> Thanks for this.
>
> When I thought of why to provide laptops for interns, I thought of the
> challenges of compiling a large code base. I thought of a possible
> solution, which is using virtual machines (managed by the mentor
> organization) to do the heavy lifting. Obviously, this would mean that the
> intern would need a laptop and internet access but would not need a fully
> up-to-date laptop.
>
> I'm not quibbling, just looking for more insight.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Craig
>
> > On Jun 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Sage Sharp <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > The short answer is yes, the ASF could provide laptops to selected
> interns.
> >
> > I'm setting the boundary that this thread *NOT* devolve into a discussion
> > of where the funds for those laptops come from. Please create a *separate
> > thread* for discussions about that. Let's keep this thread on the topic
> of
> > what sending laptops would look like, what incentive that provides, and
> the
> > known pitfalls.
> >
> > Mozilla already provides laptops to selected interns. It's the only
> > Outreachy community to do so. Mozilla provides laptops because compiling
> > the massive Firefox code base is very slow and/or impossible on older
> > laptops. I'm not sure how they work around that issue in the application
> > phase, but I can ask the Mozilla coordinators.
> >
> > Word about how the Mozilla interns get a laptop seemed to spread quickly
> to
> > applicants from Indian universities (Outreachy's largest demographic).
> > Applicants are very excited about the possibility of getting a laptop, so
> > much that they often search for Mozilla projects to apply to first.
> Mozilla
> > also has several other things that make them one of the more popular
> > communities for applicants, including a welcoming community, mostly web
> > development projects, and accepting a large number of interns.
> >
> > There are some issues on Mozilla's side with sending a laptop. They often
> > get held up in customs. One intern from India did not get the laptop
> until
> > the internship was over.
> >
> > That means Mozilla wants to lock down their intern selections as early as
> > possible in order to get their interns' address for laptop shipping. They
> > have to bend Outreachy's rule about not talking about intern selections
> > until the intern announcement date. They send interns an email asking for
> > their address to send "some Mozilla swag". I say it's bending the rule
> > because some applicants may guess asking for their address means they
> were
> > selected as an intern.
> >
> > Giving the laptop to an intern directly is a way to avoid long customs
> > delays. If all the interns attend an ASF event during their first weeks,
> a
> > laptop could be given to them there. It also has the added benefit of
> > immediately connecting interns to the community.
> >
> > The only problem with in-person events is getting a visa in time. That's
> > impossible enough for Indian interns that Mozilla has simply stopped
> > inviting them to events on a short notice.
> >
> > I've thought some about what it would take for Outreachy to provide
> laptops
> > for all 40+ interns. Sadly I think that budget number is out of our
> reach.
> > If it was possible, we could try to work with a laptop supplier that
> ships
> > directly within India. Or give interns enough of a stipend to buy one
> > themselves.
> >
> > A laptop itself may not solve all the barriers interns face. Some Indian
> > schools impose an evening curfew for all women students, in order to
> > protect them from gendered street violence. However, that means they have
> > less hours in the computer lab than the male students. Some of the
> women's
> > dorms do not have wireless internet. Interns from both India and Africa
> > often face power or internet outages. Outreachy mentors are expected to
> be
> > lienent when that happens.
> >
> > That's a brain dump of what I know about sending laptops to Outreachy
> > interns. Let me know what questions you have!
> >
> > Sage Sharp
> > Outreachy Organizers
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 29, 2019, 7:47 AM Alex Harui <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Can I get a summary of all of these Outreachy threads?  I'm not on
> >> private@diversity and I think I've read every email on this list, but
> I'm
> >> seeing numbers like $10.5K being discussed and I have no clue where that
> >> number came from.  I'm on fundraising@ as well and still don't recall
> any
> >> source for those numbers.  Also, I thought that there was more than one
> >> entity that was willing to donate directly to Outreachy and there was
> only
> >> one or two ASF sponsors who were unable to redirect their money
> directly to
> >> Outreachy, so I don't understand why we are still having these long
> >> discussions.
> >>
> >> I thought that if some entity was to donate money directly to Outreachy
> >> that there were no objections from anybody even if it benefited one or a
> >> few ASF projects and not others.  I would hope that would be the
> >> recommended workflow.
> >>
> >> If it turns out there are some entities that are ok with the money they
> >> donated to the ASF going to Outreachy but for some reason can't directly
> >> donate to Outreachy, I would hope that we would make it clear that this
> >> workflow is not our recommended workflow but we would redirect some of
> >> their money to Outreachy and either let Outreachy pick which ASF project
> >> gets an intern, or can we document somewhere that this money was donated
> >> "on behalf of Entity X".
> >>
> >> And then, IMO, the ASF is not paying for code.  Can we all agree to that
> >> and get going on Outreachy?
> >>
> >> It was interesting to see it pointed out that there is a financial
> barrier
> >> to entry at the ASF.  It would be nice if the ASF could find a way to
> help
> >> lower that barrier without "paying for code", but maybe we should put
> that
> >> in its own thread and spend more time brainstorming on that while we get
> >> going on Outreachy.  IMO, the ASF has other barriers as well.  Every ASF
> >> project I've looked at is huge compared to many of the projects I've
> seen
> >> on Github, so the learning curve may be tilted against inexperienced
> >> programmers and they may need a more expensive computer to build the
> source
> >> without it affecting the interns productivity.   But even then, the
> >> entities donating directly to Outreachy could fund that more expensive
> >> computer.  The ASF should not feel obligated to take on smaller projects
> >> just to make Outreachy interns more successful.    Contributing code to
> the
> >> ASF is more like becoming a commercial truck driver, contributing to
> GitHub
> >> is more like becoming a ride-share driver.
> >>
> >> One thought on the financial barrier before I forget:  the ASF offers
> VMs
> >> to projects.  Could they offer laptops as well?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Alex
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> Craig L Russell
> [email protected]
>
>

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