A contributor on that page is not a comparison of committers vs not. People who have made pull requests to Maven are listed as contributors. Just as they would for Log4J2. A measure, albeit one, of the overall diversity of contribution.
> On Jan 6, 2016, at 5:27 PM, Paul Benedict <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am writing regarding this statement: "Ceki may do more commits but it’s > certainly not a one man show. 76 contributors for Logback and 8 > contributors for Log4J2." > > The numbers in themselves do not tell a full story. It's in appropriate to > conclude that since 76 > 8, therefore logback is a better choice. The 8 > contributors in Log4J2 have been voted in according to Apache bylaws. > Conversely, there aren't any bylaws for logback; the logback Github project > owner can freely grant commit privileges at will ... and evidently, they > do! So the bar for committer rights is much (much) lower than at Apache. I > don't think the above comparison is fair toward log4j2. > > Cheers, > Paul > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> great, more constructive feedback :-) >>> Thanks Jason >>> >>> Both projects are well known and widely used even if log4j v2 is younger >>> with less downloads such figures are not really representative with all >>> caches/repositories managers I think. >>> >> >> I don’t have a single peer that uses Log4j2 and that’s important to me. I >> do not believe Log4J2 is well known or widely use. I think 3 years of >> releases is fairly representative in that Logback is getting close to the >> Log4J incoming edge count and if you remove all the incoming edges from >> Apache there are not a lot of users. >> >>> About logback vs log4j I have really no real preference technically >>> speaking (I had both branches working in the past and used them a lot in >> my >>> professional life - http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/). >>> >>> In term of community, Log4J is in our apache community and we have few >>> active committers arround. On Logback side even if I really appreciate >> Ceki >>> I'm always afraid about this one-man show project. (and Ceki isn't >> perfect >>> too when we see the nightmare of slf4j-api 1.5+ incompatibilities we >> always >>> have in 2016 !!). >> >> Ceki may do more commits but it’s certainly not a one man show. 76 >> contributors for Logback and 8 contributors for Log4J2. It’s stable and >> mature at this point with 54 releases versus 33 for Log4J2. I don’t think >> any person responsible for picking a package for logging would get much >> support in their organization for Log4J2, as the data would suggest. I >> think with few contributors and usage it would likely be deemed a less wise >> choice than Logback and possibly a risk. There are also lots of Apache >> projects that use Logback. I think pragmatism is a factor in all the other >> projects at Apache who selected Logback. Being at Apache obviously wasn’t >> the determining criterion and it shouldn’t be. >> >>> I agree that we are just talking about a logging implementation but you >> saw >>> what it gave for eclipse/aether …. >>> >> >> I’m not sure what your point is here. No one worked on any of the parts, >> ever, whether here or at Eclipse. I doubt anyone will work on it when it >> comes back. So I’m not sure what analogy you’re trying to make. >> >>> I'm clearly not enough involved enough in the project to try to convince >>> anyone about a choice to do but I can just say that not having a >> colorized >>> console in 2016 is .... irritating. >>> >>> For the problem reported by Gary I think that applying the fix in >>> >> maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties >>> ( >>> >> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 >>> ) >>> is safe to be back-ported in master. It is just that >>> org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactorywas for Log4J 1 AFAIU and now that >>> Log4J2 is release/stabilized there is a new one : >>> org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory >>> >> >> If I asked Ceki for help I’d get it immediately also. Who isn’t going to >> help there to get their library bundled with Maven? >> >>> For the replacement of the implementation and activate colors I prefer to >>> let active committers decide of what they are doing (I imagine that for >> any >>> choice they are doing it doesn't avoid you to use another one in your own >>> distribution ? >>> >>> I would prefer log4j2 but clearly I never merged it because of the slf4j >>> conflict that I don't understand (but I didn't spend a lot of time on it) >>> >> >> To me the most important factor is usage, of course you need some >> threshold of developers so that people are working on it but even there I’d >> say it’s pretty sparse in Log4J2. But with widespread usage comes >> examination, issue submissions, pull requests and ultimately more people >> that contribute and that’s clearly the case with Logback. I don’t see how >> you can logically refute that and see Log4J2 a better choice because of >> what organization it’s developed within? Logback has a community it just >> doesn’t happen to be here, and Ceki's not some random guy. He also has a >> long track record of open source dedication and contribution. >> >>> Cheers >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> These are the numbers I arrived at, happy to run them with different >>>> coordinates but thought these were representative: >>>> >>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'log4j:log4j').inE.count() >>>> ==>84570 >>>> >>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'ch.qos.logback:logback-classic').inE.count() >>>> ==>62389 >>>> >>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'org.apache.logging.log4j:log4j-core').inE.count() >>>> ==>3134 >>>> >>>> These are incoming edges across all versions of said coordinate. >>>> >>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> As we said previously when the the question arose again there would be >> a >>>> discussion. You may not remember, but I expect there to be a discussion. >>>>> >>>>> I have built a graph of Maven Central to analyze the rank (count of all >>>> incoming edges) for Log4J2 and Logback and it is clear from those >> numbers >>>> that everyone has gone from Log4J to Logback. What has happened, I >> believe >>>> from the numbers, is that the community followed the founder of the >> project >>>> and not the owner project in pretty much the exact same way users went >> with >>>> Jenkins and not Hudson. Anyone is happy to take the graph and verify >> this >>>> themselves, or generate their own data from the machine that is housing >> the >>>> copy of Maven Central at Google. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally Igor has an implementation for logging during concurrent >>>> builds based on Logback that I would really like to use, and the color >>>> logging is also easy with Logback. I do not want to use something that >> the >>>> community at large has not adopted. >>>>> >>>>> Again, anyone is welcome to the code and/or the data if they want to >>>> verify this themselves. >>>>> >>>>> I also am not interested in a debate so if we disagree then just leave >>>> the simple implementation in place. I’m not philosophically motivated >> much >>>> here in these discussions but I’m vehemently opposed to integrating >> Log4J2. >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:55 AM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for this valuable comment Jason :( >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> -1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do not merge this branch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 4:05 AM, Tibor Digana <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud, >>>>>>>> Do you plan a Release Version to merge this branch o master in >> Maven? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Arnaud Héritier [via Maven] < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just because only 2.4 was available when I updated this feature >>>> branch >>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>> months ago. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Le mardi 5 janvier 2016, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=0>> a écrit : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the update. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Why not update the Log4j 2 dep from 2.4 to 2.5? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=1> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gary, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I fixed this in the branch : >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/maven/commits/slf4j-log4j2.4 >>>>>>>>>>> The fix is in >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ( >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 >>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>> It is the update I did after my old blog post : >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> BR >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=2> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Happy Holidays. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can the next version of Maven be rid of this warning: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] The SLF4J binding actually used is not supported by >> Maven: >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] Maven supported bindings are: >>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] (from >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >> jar:file:/E:/Java/apache-maven-3.3.9/bin/../lib/maven-embedder-3.3.9.jar!/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - ch.qos.logback.classic.LoggerContext >>>>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.impl.SimpleLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a step I am missing to use Log4j 2 cleanly? My steps >> are >>>>>>>>> here: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>> https://garygregory.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/watch-maven-in-color/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=3> >>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>> | [hidden >>>>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=4> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition < >> http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier >>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net >>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>>>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=5> >>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>> | [hidden >>>>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=6> >>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ >>> >>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier >>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net >>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the >>>> discussion >>>>>>>>> below: >>>>>>>>> >>>> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Log4j-Warning-tp5856237p5857870.html >>>>>>>>> To start a new topic under Maven Developers, email >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from Maven Developers, click here >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>> >> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=142166&code=dGlib3JkaWdhbmFAYXBhY2hlLm9yZ3wxNDIxNjZ8LTI4OTQ5MjEwMg== >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> NAML >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>> >> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=macro_viewer&id=instant_html%21nabble%3Aemail.naml&base=nabble.naml.namespaces.BasicNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NabbleNamespace-nabble.view.web.template.NodeNamespace&breadcrumbs=notify_subscribers%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-instant_emails%21nabble%3Aemail.naml-send_instant_email%21nabble%3Aemail.naml >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> View this message in context: >>>>>>> >> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Log4j-Warning-tp5856237p5857942.html >>>>>>>> Sent from the Maven Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Arnaud Héritier >>>>>> http://aheritier.net >>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven >>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ----- >>> Arnaud Héritier >>> http://aheritier.net >>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> http://twitter.com/takari_io >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Takari and Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl http://twitter.com/takari_io --------------------------------------------------------- {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
