I’ve no issue with the fix to make any implementation to work, just the merging of the log4j2 branch in general.
> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:20 PM, Ralph Goers <[email protected]> wrote: > > Jason, > > I really don’t care which logging framework Maven uses. There isn’t going to > be much difference between Logback and Log4j 2 in a batch process like Maven, > although asynchronous loggers might speed up larger builds somewhat. > > However, these comparisons are still incorrect. Log4j is using the ASF’s git > repository and hasn’t really integrated pull requests from github so you are > comparing apples and oranges. If you look at the changes.xml file you will > see 250 due-to attributions, some of which include committers but most of > which are not. Just in the latest release, 2.5, there were contributions from > 13 individuals outside of the ASF and in the 2.4 release there were > contributions from more than 20. If Logback has only had contributions from > 70+ non-committers since they moved to git, then Log4j is easily winning that > metric. > > That said, I don’t use Maven for how cool its logging framework is. However, > Gary’s original complaint about an unsupported SLF4J binding seems like it > should be addressed. Why can’t a user use their own custom SLF4J > implementation? > > Ralph > >> On Jan 6, 2016, at 3:49 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 5:46 PM, Paul Benedict <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Jason, I am sorry but to disagree with you. Your statistics are still not >>> telling a full story. I can glance at the commit graphs of these 76 logback >>> contributors rather quickly to see really how "diverse" this community is. >>> >>> * 35 (~45%) only ever made 1 contribution >>> * 18 (~25%) have only ever made 2 contributions >>> * 16 (~20%) have between 3-10 contributions. >>> >> >> This is still awesome. I would love to have 35 contributors making one >> change. It all adds up. >> >>> That leaves only 7 logback contributors (~10%) who actually do something. >>> And of those 7, only 4 committed something in 2015 ... and Cecki is the >>> leader by far. It's clearly a very visible one man show with sparse >>> contributions from others. >>> >>> Based on these numbers, I think Log4J2 has the better community involvement. >>> >> >> Everyone will interpret numbers as they wish but it’s a simple thing even to >> make one change in an open source project. 99% of people never do so to have >> that number of people make one or two changes is a significant thing. >> >>> Cheers, >>> Paul >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> A contributor on that page is not a comparison of committers vs not. >>>> People who have made pull requests to Maven are listed as contributors. >>>> Just as they would for Log4J2. A measure, albeit one, of the overall >>>> diversity of contribution. >>>> >>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 5:27 PM, Paul Benedict <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I am writing regarding this statement: "Ceki may do more commits but it’s >>>>> certainly not a one man show. 76 contributors for Logback and 8 >>>>> contributors for Log4J2." >>>>> >>>>> The numbers in themselves do not tell a full story. It's in appropriate >>>> to >>>>> conclude that since 76 > 8, therefore logback is a better choice. The 8 >>>>> contributors in Log4J2 have been voted in according to Apache bylaws. >>>>> Conversely, there aren't any bylaws for logback; the logback Github >>>> project >>>>> owner can freely grant commit privileges at will ... and evidently, they >>>>> do! So the bar for committer rights is much (much) lower than at Apache. >>>> I >>>>> don't think the above comparison is fair toward log4j2. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> great, more constructive feedback :-) >>>>>>> Thanks Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Both projects are well known and widely used even if log4j v2 is >>>> younger >>>>>>> with less downloads such figures are not really representative with all >>>>>>> caches/repositories managers I think. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I don’t have a single peer that uses Log4j2 and that’s important to me. >>>> I >>>>>> do not believe Log4J2 is well known or widely use. I think 3 years of >>>>>> releases is fairly representative in that Logback is getting close to >>>> the >>>>>> Log4J incoming edge count and if you remove all the incoming edges from >>>>>> Apache there are not a lot of users. >>>>>> >>>>>>> About logback vs log4j I have really no real preference technically >>>>>>> speaking (I had both branches working in the past and used them a lot >>>> in >>>>>> my >>>>>>> professional life - http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In term of community, Log4J is in our apache community and we have few >>>>>>> active committers arround. On Logback side even if I really appreciate >>>>>> Ceki >>>>>>> I'm always afraid about this one-man show project. (and Ceki isn't >>>>>> perfect >>>>>>> too when we see the nightmare of slf4j-api 1.5+ incompatibilities we >>>>>> always >>>>>>> have in 2016 !!). >>>>>> >>>>>> Ceki may do more commits but it’s certainly not a one man show. 76 >>>>>> contributors for Logback and 8 contributors for Log4J2. It’s stable and >>>>>> mature at this point with 54 releases versus 33 for Log4J2. I don’t >>>> think >>>>>> any person responsible for picking a package for logging would get much >>>>>> support in their organization for Log4J2, as the data would suggest. I >>>>>> think with few contributors and usage it would likely be deemed a less >>>> wise >>>>>> choice than Logback and possibly a risk. There are also lots of Apache >>>>>> projects that use Logback. I think pragmatism is a factor in all the >>>> other >>>>>> projects at Apache who selected Logback. Being at Apache obviously >>>> wasn’t >>>>>> the determining criterion and it shouldn’t be. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that we are just talking about a logging implementation but you >>>>>> saw >>>>>>> what it gave for eclipse/aether …. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m not sure what your point is here. No one worked on any of the parts, >>>>>> ever, whether here or at Eclipse. I doubt anyone will work on it when it >>>>>> comes back. So I’m not sure what analogy you’re trying to make. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm clearly not enough involved enough in the project to try to >>>> convince >>>>>>> anyone about a choice to do but I can just say that not having a >>>>>> colorized >>>>>>> console in 2016 is .... irritating. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the problem reported by Gary I think that applying the fix in >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties >>>>>>> ( >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 >>>>>>> ) >>>>>>> is safe to be back-ported in master. It is just that >>>>>>> org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactorywas for Log4J 1 AFAIU and now that >>>>>>> Log4J2 is release/stabilized there is a new one : >>>>>>> org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If I asked Ceki for help I’d get it immediately also. Who isn’t going to >>>>>> help there to get their library bundled with Maven? >>>>>> >>>>>>> For the replacement of the implementation and activate colors I prefer >>>> to >>>>>>> let active committers decide of what they are doing (I imagine that for >>>>>> any >>>>>>> choice they are doing it doesn't avoid you to use another one in your >>>> own >>>>>>> distribution ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would prefer log4j2 but clearly I never merged it because of the >>>> slf4j >>>>>>> conflict that I don't understand (but I didn't spend a lot of time on >>>> it) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To me the most important factor is usage, of course you need some >>>>>> threshold of developers so that people are working on it but even there >>>> I’d >>>>>> say it’s pretty sparse in Log4J2. But with widespread usage comes >>>>>> examination, issue submissions, pull requests and ultimately more people >>>>>> that contribute and that’s clearly the case with Logback. I don’t see >>>> how >>>>>> you can logically refute that and see Log4J2 a better choice because of >>>>>> what organization it’s developed within? Logback has a community it just >>>>>> doesn’t happen to be here, and Ceki's not some random guy. He also has a >>>>>> long track record of open source dedication and contribution. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These are the numbers I arrived at, happy to run them with different >>>>>>>> coordinates but thought these were representative: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'log4j:log4j').inE.count() >>>>>>>> ==>84570 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'ch.qos.logback:logback-classic').inE.count() >>>>>>>> ==>62389 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> gremlin> g.V('vc', 'org.apache.logging.log4j:log4j-core').inE.count() >>>>>>>> ==>3134 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> These are incoming edges across all versions of said coordinate. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As we said previously when the the question arose again there would >>>> be >>>>>> a >>>>>>>> discussion. You may not remember, but I expect there to be a >>>> discussion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have built a graph of Maven Central to analyze the rank (count of >>>> all >>>>>>>> incoming edges) for Log4J2 and Logback and it is clear from those >>>>>> numbers >>>>>>>> that everyone has gone from Log4J to Logback. What has happened, I >>>>>> believe >>>>>>>> from the numbers, is that the community followed the founder of the >>>>>> project >>>>>>>> and not the owner project in pretty much the exact same way users went >>>>>> with >>>>>>>> Jenkins and not Hudson. Anyone is happy to take the graph and verify >>>>>> this >>>>>>>> themselves, or generate their own data from the machine that is >>>> housing >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> copy of Maven Central at Google. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Additionally Igor has an implementation for logging during concurrent >>>>>>>> builds based on Logback that I would really like to use, and the color >>>>>>>> logging is also easy with Logback. I do not want to use something that >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> community at large has not adopted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again, anyone is welcome to the code and/or the data if they want to >>>>>>>> verify this themselves. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also am not interested in a debate so if we disagree then just >>>> leave >>>>>>>> the simple implementation in place. I’m not philosophically motivated >>>>>> much >>>>>>>> here in these discussions but I’m vehemently opposed to integrating >>>>>> Log4J2. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 7:55 AM, Arnaud Héritier <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> thanks for this valuable comment Jason :( >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do not merge this branch. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 6, 2016, at 4:05 AM, Tibor Digana <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud, >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you plan a Release Version to merge this branch o master in >>>>>> Maven? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:18 AM, Arnaud Héritier [via Maven] < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just because only 2.4 was available when I updated this feature >>>>>>>> branch >>>>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>>>>>> months ago. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Le mardi 5 janvier 2016, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=0>> a >>>> écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Arnaud, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the update. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not update the Log4j 2 dep from 2.4 to 2.5? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Arnaud Héritier <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gary, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I fixed this in the branch : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/maven/commits/slf4j-log4j2.4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fix is in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> maven-embedder/src/main/resources/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ( >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> https://github.com/apache/maven/commit/8cddea291c279130d437bcdf3337f16296558530 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is the update I did after my old blog post : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.aheritier.net/united-colors-of-maven/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Gary Gregory <[hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=2> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Happy Holidays. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can the next version of Maven be rid of this warning: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] The SLF4J binding actually used is not supported by >>>>>> Maven: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.logging.slf4j.Log4jLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] Maven supported bindings are: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [WARN] (from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> jar:file:/E:/Java/apache-maven-3.3.9/bin/../lib/maven-embedder-3.3.9.jar!/META-INF/maven/slf4j-configuration.properties) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - ch.qos.logback.classic.LoggerContext >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.helpers.Log4jLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - org.slf4j.impl.SimpleLoggerFactory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a step I am missing to use Log4j 2 cleanly? My steps >>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> here: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://garygregory.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/watch-maven-in-color/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=3> >>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>>> | [hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=4> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition < >>>>>> http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: [hidden email] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=5> >>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>>> | [hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>> email] <http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=5857870&i=6> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <javascript:;> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition < >>>> http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud Héritier >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://aheritier.net >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mail/GTalk: aheritier AT gmail DOT com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter/Skype : aheritier >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the >>>>>>>> discussion >>>>>>>>>>>>> below: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Log4j-Warning-tp5856237p5857870.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> To start a new topic under Maven Developers, email >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from Maven Developers, click here >>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=unsubscribe_by_code&node=142166&code=dGlib3JkaWdhbmFAYXBhY2hlLm9yZ3wxNDIxNjZ8LTI4OTQ5MjEwMg== >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> NAML >>>>>>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> 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{script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Takari and Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl <http://twitter.com/jvanzyl> >> http://twitter.com/takari_io <http://twitter.com/takari_io> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> {script:nopre:"/Users/jvanzyl/signature/signature.sh"} >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Takari and Apache Maven 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