On Dec 9, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org> wrote: > It looks others don't want modern stuff. > So not a problem. During my life I have used ed, vi then vim or emacs > now an IDE. > Those last ones make me see "la vie en rose" with some colors. > BTW I still like vi maybe Keep It So Simple pattern or I'm too old for > too much modern stuff :-)
We can do the coloured logging with Logback, I don't see a problem there. I commented that option out in the Logback branch and we can probably make it easier with something in settings.xml but I don't think we're limited feature-wise by selecting Logback. > > Regarding "immature" I think we have previously based our maven core > on "immature" stuff. If immature means "young libraries build by > experimented and efficient folks". Where an option didn't exist sure. Plexus and Spring were started at almost the exact same time, and while there was Avalon and Pico they were all being actively developed and it was easier for me to make something specific for Maven where there were many injection sites, I wanted to disallow cycles in the components, wanted to use annotations to drive the generation of the metadata, and it needed to be embeddable. The Avalon Phoenix container was the best fit but the whole Avalon project went down in flames at Apache. The author of that container, which is probably still one of the best DI implementations that exists, was the only committer ever to be ejected from Apache so I just chose not to use that because I felt that whole episode was a travesty. But I tried them all, and though I probably could have tried harder to use one of the other projects there was no mature option. As for Modello there was EMF which was also immature and I tried to swap out Modello to use EMF recently and I don't think it's possible even now. The other option was XMI but the model for Maven was 5mb and the tooling was horrendously complicated. But Modello used parts of Castor and things that did exist. Again there wasn't really a mature option 8 years ago for simple generation. Again I could have looked harder and my appetite for reimplementation was certainly more powerful several years ago but I don't think there was really another option. For Sisu it is the same situation. We used Guice as the base as it was clearly the best fit, mature and battle tested, embeddable and an SPI flexible enough to build upon. What we needed to make Guice work for Maven simply doesn't exist. What Stuart created still doesn't really have any counterparts and certainly no mature options. What Stuart created is simply an amazing piece of technology. I don't think anyone can really appreciate what it took to get Maven to run on stock Guice. This was all to eliminate a silo of technology, Plexus, that really puts the project at risk. So while I may have written things in the past where there were no options I have tried to eliminate them as time has passed and this was not an inexpensive endeavor. Logback is distinctly different in that there is a mature option that has been readily absorbed by many projects including many at Apache. Logback has the features we need and I think it's the most sensible choice. If it doesn't have things we need I will gladly help implement them. I'll stop beating the dead horse but I just wanted to point out that I think this selection of a logging framework is distinctly different then our previous major technology choices. > > But community/consensus/majority decide. > > So even if I'm a French guy (those kind of folks who usually grumble a > lot :-) ), I will stop complaining (at least I can configure my local > installation with my preferred mode). > > Cheers > -- > Olivier > > > 2012/12/9 Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com>: >> Hi guys, >> >> Simple, log4j, logback...nobody cares about jdk? It is far better than >> simple and enough by default avoiding log4j/logback issue...then the >> question would rather be why slf4j since JUL is enough and can be the API >> as in cxf, owb etc... >> Le 9 déc. 2012 16:18, "Jason van Zyl" <ja...@tesla.io> a écrit : >> >>> I agree. I don't believe it's reasonable path to pick an immature library >>> for the core given the existence of Logback. >>> >>> Arnaud, I believe you felt the same way? >>> >>> I honestly gave SLF4J Simple a good run and pushed it with Ceki to make it >>> do more than originally intended but I don't think it makes sense to push >>> anymore. >>> >>> If other committers have an opinion let's please get this sorted out. >>> >>> On Dec 9, 2012, at 5:52 AM, Kristian Rosenvold < >>> kristian.rosenv...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> 2012/12/9 Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org>: >>>>> Perso I'm fine using log4j2. >>>>> I use the branch I pushed for some weeks now and I'm happy. >>>>> Log4j2 has quickly added a feature I needed and release it. >>>>> Furthermore I'm fine working with an Apache community in case of any >>>>> issue we could have. >>>> >>>> I'm not entirely sure I follow where this discussion is actually >>>> going, but I'm firmly opposed >>>> to including a brand new logging framework as default in m3. >>>> >>>> Kristian >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Jason van Zyl >>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype >>> Founder, Apache Maven >>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Our achievements speak for themselves. What we have to keep track >>> of are our failures, discouragements and doubts. We tend to forget >>> the past difficulties, the many false starts, and the painful >>> groping. We see our past achievements as the end result of a >>> clean forward thrust, and our present difficulties as >>> signs of decline and decay. >>> >>> -- Eric Hoffer, Reflections on the Human Condition >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder & CTO, Sonatype Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- We know what we are, but know not what we may be. -- Shakespeare
