I'm also +1 to Justin's points.

On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:38 AM Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org> wrote:

> +1 to all your points Justin.
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM Justin Leet <justinjl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought
> into
> > it.
> >
> > I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> > discussions.  That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> > dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> > else seen this test failure?", etc.).  I think we've been pretty good
> about
> > keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> > conversation).
> >
> > We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> > troubleshooting move to the list.  I think we've gotten a bit better
> about
> > it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> > exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> > point of the lists, imo.
> >
> > To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> > (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> > developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> > troubleshooting, etc.
> >
> > Essentially, I'm proposing:
> > Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete
> feature
> > discussion/review.
> > Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> > starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> > User list for usage and troubleshooting questions.  Generally,
> discussions
> > like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
> >
> > Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list
> activity.
> > > Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> > > been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> > in
> > > the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> > > increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report
> that I
> > > > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> > flat
> > > > as
> > > > compared to last quarter.  That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> > more
> > > > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> > > github
> > > > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <
> ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with
> perceived
> > > > > activity on the list.
> > > > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > > > because
> > > > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > > > >
> > > > > That is exactly my concern.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <alinazem...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> > > rather
> > > > > than
> > > > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be
> > used
> > > > for
> > > > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be
> accessible
> > > by
> > > > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of
> the
> > > > other
> > > > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user
> related
> > > > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to
> see
> > > the
> > > > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently
> people
> > > > > thought
> > > > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so
> > active
> > > > > > anymore!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Ali
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable
> > by
> > > > > > ponymail
> > > > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it
> > being
> > > > > > indexed
> > > > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search
> engine
> > > and
> > > > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> > > > ottobackwa...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack,
> > the
> > > > ASF
> > > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one
> and
> > is
> > > > > > > > searchable
> > > > > > > > > past 10,000 messages.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
> > > > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do
> > think
> > > > > > there's
> > > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's
> also
> > > > easier
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > link
> > > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> > > searches...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How very Inception.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic <
> > > > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32
> members
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Metron
> > > > > > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign.
> > This
> > > is
> > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive
> sessions
> > > > where
> > > > > > > > > required.
> > > > > > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do
> > think
> > > > > > there's
> > > > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's
> > also
> > > > > easier
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > link
> > > > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> > > searches.
> > > > As
> > > > > > > > such, I
> > > > > > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge
> members
> > > to
> > > > > > prefer
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > user/dev list where possible.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet <
> > > > > > justinjl...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my
> > > obvious
> > > > > > > follow
> > > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of
> > > > > Slack/irc/other
> > > > > > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want
> > on
> > > > > there,
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support?
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella <
> > > > > ceste...@gmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand,
> > > it's
> > > > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the
> reasons
> > > you
> > > > > > > stated
> > > > > > > > > (and
> > > > > > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack
> > generally).
> > > On
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a
> lot
> > > of
> > > > > > > > advantages
> > > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may
> > > > satisfy
> > > > > 1
> > > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > > >> at
> > > > > > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and
> satisfying
> > > > many
> > > > > > > users.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more
> > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> > mailing list.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > Casey
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen <
> > > > > n...@nickallen.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage
> and
> > > > > support
> > > > > > > > > >> questions
> > > > > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > > > > >> > > the Slack Channel.
> > > > > > > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been
> > > > directed
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> User
> > > > > > > > > >> > or
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the
> > Slack
> > > > > > Channel,
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> > > conversations are not archived.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron
> > > community.
> > > > > > Having
> > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing
> list
> > > > > archive)
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > >> only
> > > > > > > > > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps
> > *potential*
> > > > > users
> > > > > > > > > >> understand
> > > > > > > > > >> > > how Metron is being used.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I
> > feel
> > > > we
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >> do
> > > > > > > > > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the
> > > > mailing
> > > > > > > list.
> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > A.Nazemian
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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