+1 to all your points Justin.
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM Justin Leet <justinjl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought into
> it.
>
> I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good about
> keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> conversation).
>
> We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
> it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> point of the lists, imo.
>
> To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> troubleshooting, etc.
>
> Essentially, I'm proposing:
> Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete feature
> discussion/review.
> Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
> like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
>
> Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity.
> > Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> > been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up
> in
> > the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> > increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> > > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is
> flat
> > > as
> > > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand
> more
> > > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> > github
> > > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> > > > activity on the list.
> > > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > > because
> > > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > > >
> > > > That is exactly my concern.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <alinazem...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> > rather
> > > > than
> > > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be
> used
> > > for
> > > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> > by
> > > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
> > > other
> > > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> > > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
> > the
> > > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
> > > > thought
> > > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so
> active
> > > > > anymore!
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Ali
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable
> by
> > > > > ponymail
> > > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it
> being
> > > > > indexed
> > > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine
> > and
> > > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> > > ottobackwa...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack,
> the
> > > ASF
> > > > > > slack
> > > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and
> is
> > > > > > > searchable
> > > > > > > > past 10,000 messages.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
> > > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do
> think
> > > > > there's
> > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
> > > easier
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > link
> > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> > searches...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How very Inception.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic <
> > > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > Metron
> > > > > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign.
> This
> > is
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions
> > > where
> > > > > > > > required.
> > > > > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do
> think
> > > > > there's
> > > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's
> also
> > > > easier
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > link
> > > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> > searches.
> > > As
> > > > > > > such, I
> > > > > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members
> > to
> > > > > prefer
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > user/dev list where possible.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet <
> > > > > justinjl...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my
> > obvious
> > > > > > follow
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of
> > > > Slack/irc/other
> > > > > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want
> on
> > > > there,
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support?
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella <
> > > > ceste...@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand,
> > it's
> > > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons
> > you
> > > > > > stated
> > > > > > > > (and
> > > > > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack
> generally).
> > On
> > > > the
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot
> > of
> > > > > > > advantages
> > > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may
> > > satisfy
> > > > 1
> > > > > > > user
> > > > > > > > >> at
> > > > > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying
> > > many
> > > > > > users.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more
> > > > > discussion
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > mailing list.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > Casey
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen <
> > > > n...@nickallen.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and
> > > > support
> > > > > > > > >> questions
> > > > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > > > >> > > the Slack Channel.
> > > > > > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been
> > > directed
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> User
> > > > > > > > >> > or
> > > > > > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the
> Slack
> > > > > Channel,
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> > > conversations are not archived.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron
> > community.
> > > > > Having
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list
> > > > archive)
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >> only
> > > > > > > > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps
> *potential*
> > > > users
> > > > > > > > >> understand
> > > > > > > > >> > > how Metron is being used.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I
> feel
> > > we
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >> do
> > > > > > > > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the
> > > mailing
> > > > > > list.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > A.Nazemian
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
