I realize that I’m a “new kid” here, but I think you can have your cake and
eat it too…..
If I can create it, find it, or configure it, perhaps the really best way is to
be able to either:
1) dump public slack conversations to the developer thread - arbitrarily
2) dump public slack conversations to the user thread - IFF the
thread/conversation was tagged #user (or equivalent)
Slack is a wonderful tool for facilitating discussions - I cannot emphasize how
often spam filters and the inherent slowness email servers - have interfered
with rapid conversations. Additionally, the big “ask” of any resolution on
slack - has been “can you put this in the email thread”. Goes without
saying that the even bigger ask has been - can this be contributed to the
documentation.
I strongly recommend that you streamline the flow of information from Slack to
the list archives.
SCott
Scott C. Cote
scottcc...@gmail.com
972.900.1561
twitter: @scottccote
> On Nov 12, 2018, at 9:07 AM, Justin Leet <justinjl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought into
> it.
>
> I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
> discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
> dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
> else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good about
> keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
> conversation).
>
> We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
> troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
> it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
> exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
> point of the lists, imo.
>
> To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
> (and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
> developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
> troubleshooting, etc.
>
> Essentially, I'm proposing:
> Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete feature
> discussion/review.
> Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
> starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
> User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
> like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
>
> Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity.
>> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
>> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up in
>> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
>> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
>>> submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat
>>> as
>>> compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more
>>> discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
>> github
>>> and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
>>>> activity on the list.
>>>> That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
>>> because
>>>> the mailing list is not so active anymore!
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly my concern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <alinazem...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
>> rather
>>>> than
>>>>> user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used
>>> for
>>>>> the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
>> by
>>>>> other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
>>> other
>>>>> Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
>>>>> discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
>> the
>>>>> mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
>>>> thought
>>>>> Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active
>>>>> anymore!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ali
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by
>>>>> ponymail
>>>>>> and the major search engines.
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being
>>>>> indexed
>>>>>>> by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine
>> and
>>>>>>> uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
>>> ottobackwa...@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the
>>> ASF
>>>>>> slack
>>>>>>>> that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is
>>>>>>> searchable
>>>>>>>> past 10,000 messages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
>>>>>>>> michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think
>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>> something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
>>> easier
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> link
>>>>>>>> to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
>> searches...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How very Inception.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic <
>>>>>>>> michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in
>>> the
>>>>>>> Metron
>>>>>>>>> Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This
>> is
>>>>> good
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions
>>> where
>>>>>>>> required.
>>>>>>>>> From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think
>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>>> something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
>>>> easier
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> link
>>>>>>>>> to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
>> searches.
>>> As
>>>>>>> such, I
>>>>>>>>> would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members
>> to
>>>>> prefer
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> user/dev list where possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet <
>>>>> justinjl...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my
>> obvious
>>>>>> follow
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of
>>>> Slack/irc/other
>>>>>>>>>> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on
>>>> there,
>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella <
>>>> ceste...@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand,
>> it's
>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons
>> you
>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> also because not everyone has access to slack generally).
>> On
>>>> the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot
>> of
>>>>>>> advantages
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may
>>> satisfy
>>>> 1
>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>> the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying
>>> many
>>>>>> users.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more
>>>>> discussion
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Casey
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen <
>>>> n...@nickallen.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and
>>>> support
>>>>>>>>>> questions
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Slack Channel.
>>>>>>>>>>>> These are questions that previously would have been
>>> directed
>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> User
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack
>>>>> Channel,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations are not archived.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron
>> community.
>>>>> Having
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list
>>>> archive)
>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>> helps support current users, but also helps *potential*
>>>> users
>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>> how Metron is being used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel
>>> we
>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>> something to direct these conversations back to the
>>> mailing
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> A.Nazemian
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
