Hi Sophie, all, sorry - this post became longer than I hoped...
Sophie Gautier<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > This mail will be pretty long sorry, but, I'm tired of fighting against > my own project, the one I choose to work about 40 hours per week without > asking for any feedback because this is my choice and I own it. > > I'm answering at the top of your mail Bernhard, not for being impolite > but because on this subject there is some information I should give > where I understand both Ger and Charles reaction. I do understand all of your reactions, too, but wanted to show that in this case there have been some misinterpretations WRT the writer of the wiki page as well as to it's intentions (at in the way, I understood it). I don't want to talk again about Kami's work - there have been chances for better communication and integration in the past - but we should find a way to solve the other, more general problems you raised here: > > This is not directed toward Kami, but about an overall lake of > communication on [...] the OpenOffice.org project. Communication among developers and "non-coders" is a topic in probably every open source project, but OpenOffice.org is different from most of the other projects, because the community was build around an exsting high quality code basis. Therefore we became a huge community with relatively less developers - and the developers kept the communication basis they knew from before: direct communication and Issuezilla. I don't know if they used developer mailing lists before - propbably some newsgroups or similar - but now they communicate with other *developers* on these lists. There are only a few mailing lists where you can see developers discussions or replies to questions besides the lists in coding projects - [EMAIL PROTECTED], discuss@, and during the last weeks [EMAIL PROTECTED] come to my mind. releases@ is a bit different: Here it is known that non-coders are discussing with developers. MOst of these discussions should have been taken place beforehand, but this is exactly what I'd like to discuss: There is no real discussion between developers and other community members in an early stage of any development! >From what I heard at Lyon (and read on the lists frequented by developers) >there is a movement towards the community inside Sun, but mostly these >movements have been towards external developers, not to non-coding projects >(except l10n, which stands inbetween). One exception has been made by Frank Peters and Uwe Fischer by moving the work on Online Help inside the Documentation Project, others may be there, that I don't see in the moment. This lack of communication causes frustration - no question. And your examples show points where informations should have been shared between developers and other parts of the community. I don't think that they did it on purpose - I assume that it didn't come to their mind, that - there are people willing to help with "official" graphics and localized web pages for the Update Notification. - they should have included the Documentation Project when they thought about a central repository for templates. - this would have been the most appropriate list for Kami to ask for support and explain his work I would guess that most of the developers didin't know about out template contest at all even if it has been announced on several (non-coding) lists, on the home page and in our newsletter. But how could we change this? What I feel is, that the gap between developers and non-coders is becoming a bit smaller, but there is still a lot to do. I didn't think of pointing to this list when I read Jörg Jahnke's information about the online update pages, I just asked for the source of the graphic and Jörg attached it to an issue, so we can translate it. I didn't inform th UI project, when the Art Project started working on Icons for OOo3 (I did it later on - without any reply BTW) I didn't point to the Marketing Project to discuss what should be presented on the Online Update web page. In my eyes this is the only way to increase real *team* work between developers and us non-coders: To intensify the awareness of the others. OpenOffice.org is so huge, that it is impossible to stay informed about what happens in other projects. Our newsletter gives a short overview of the most important things, so I encourage everybody (including each developer) to subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and read at least the titles. If something is not going the right way (and even if there are several points that might lead to thoughts, this would have been done by purpose), everybody should feel responsible to involve the people or projects concerned with that topic. I don't want OpenOffice.org to be divided in subprojects where nobody feels to be part of the whole but only of it's *own* project. Many community members are part of several projects and subscribed to a lot of lists. If we all work on interaction between projects and idividuals this will improve communication - and depending on the reaction of the addressed we'll be able to distinguish between inattentiveness and intentional ignorance. Best regards Bernhard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
