I agree with you on needing to fix the release pipeline.
I've used Netbeans for over 15 years. I mention this not to toot my own
horn but rather to say that I've used many official releases, and patch
releases in between. The one thing that has constantly bugged me is how
official releases always contain regressions in core functionality and I
have to wait 3-6 months for a patch to come out and fix the problem.
This kind of stuff should really get caught by automated tests.
I mean, I hate to be the scrooge that's focusing on stability instead of
new features, but when the core functionality (editor, compiler,
debugger) contain annoying bugs then I don't feel there is much else to
talk about. Let's nail this down with automated tests so we can focus on
more important things.
Gili
On 2018-02-23 1:31 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
I know exactly what you mean, but I don’t mean the release of NB 9, I mean all
other Releases. Often you have to wait 6 months or more for new Features etc.
The community you can see it in slack, Twitter, Facebook asking for when will
it be done, when is JS coming, when will we have better release cycles or new
Features that other IDEs or Editors already have since ages (I know it is a bit
exaggerated but it should be clear, what I mean). Those Things are real
Problems too, not only for the current release.
NetBeans often lacks behind Features. No Vue Support, no full real Angular 2
Support, a lot of stuff that was not working under Oracle, often this is not
possible with 3rd Party Plugins, because of the private APIs or whatever (See
the Angular 2 template stuff inside html files or KendoUI Support, what
Geertjan started, which is not possible anymore to work with, because it is not
a friend plugin anymore). And if you compare NetBeans with big competitors like
IntelliJ/PHPStorm/WebStorm or Eclipse or VS Code, we must Change smth, we have
to.
I don’t mean, that we have to have this politics like: Get Things done fast.
But I think if we have a better Pipeline and a better QA process and whatever,
that we can save 2 months (Remove NetCat) because that is not needed. 2 Months
that can save time from maybe 6 Months + 2 Months NetCat to only 6 or less. I
prefer 3 months too, as we can see it now, we have some new PRs and sure we
will have more and more. People are waiting for new stuff, etc. And as I said,
it is not only about NB 9.
Cheers
Chris
Von: Jiří Kovalský
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Februar 2018 19:11
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [news] NetCAT 9.0 proposal
I share the same opinion. For me personally quality is the most precious
feature. I know that we all have been waiting for NetBeans 9.0 for more
than a year now but good things need time. ;)
Regarding release frequency, we should release only when it makes sense
i.e. when a set of interesting new features is implemented together with
a handful of critical bug fixes. Let's not follow the modern but insane
corporate paranoia: "We must get it out quickly otherwise competition
will be far ahead!" which only leads to frustration and disappointment
both among development teams and end users.
We are true open source project now! I don't want to go back to date
driven release trains at all cost.
-Jirka
Dne 23.2.2018 v 17:03 cowwoc napsal(a):
Same here. Stability first. Once we've got that down, then I'd favor a
release schedule of 3-6 months.
Gili
On 2018-02-23 5:52 AM, Валера Солдатов wrote:
My 2 cents. I wish to use stable and quick IDE. I don't want to update
my working tool too often.
23.02.2018 13:01, Christian Lenz пишет:
Really 10 Weeks? 2 more months? I mean I don’t know it really,
because it is a huge Code base but im the future, my wish and I think
from other People too, we want to have more release cycles and less
time between Releases. My 2 cents.
Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Freitag, 23. Februar 2018 08:51
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Cc: d...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [news] NetCAT 9.0 proposal
On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Sven Reimers <sven.reim...@gmail.com>
wrote:
+1..
Is this only on 10 or with 10 as Platform as well (thinking of var ...)
My personal opinion:
-NetBeans IDE should run on JDK 10
-ideally it should be possible to have a (J2SE/Maven) project using
JDK 10
as well, including support for var (shouldn't be difficult, see the
jdk18_3
branch in the official repository; depends on whether we can add a
feature
like this at this stage).
-the NetBeans IDE itself can't use JDK 9/10 features, as it still should
run on JDK 8.
-for applications based on NetBeans platform, the build system currently
does not (AFAIK) support JDK 9/10, but if someone wanted to work on
that, I
think it would be useful.
Jan
Looking forward to an awesine first Apache NetCat..
Sven
P.S. Is Synergy already hosted on Apache infrastructure?
Am 22.02.2018 22:59 schrieb "John Kostaras" <jkosta...@gmail.com>:
+1
On 22 February 2018 at 20:50, Jiří Kovalský <jiri.koval...@oracle.com>
wrote:
Hello NetBeans community,
now that we have Apache NetBeans 9.0 Beta officially released to
public
we would like to start our traditional Beta testing program called
NetCAT.
We would like to send out the official invitation on Monday -
February
26th
but before we proceed Hermien and me would like to present our
plan how
NetCAT 9.0 will be organized and ask for constructive feedback.
Please
bear
in mind to voice your concerns by the end of this week. We will
attempt
to
address your questions or suggestions but we still hope you will
simply
like what we have prepared. :)
Here we go:
1. NetCAT 9.0 will roughly take 10 weeks i.e. ~2 months. We
allocated 2
weeks for review of test specifications, followed by 4 weeks of
testing
and
bug fixing phase, at the end finished by 3 week long community
acceptance
survey. For more details see our projected schedule [1].
2. The testing will be tracked in Synergy - NetBeans test
specification
and test run management system. NetCAT 9.0 participants will be
divided
into 9 tribes focusing on one of 9 crucial functionality areas each.
3. We have drafted quality criteria [2] which we would like to
meet for
the GA release. In short, we aim to fix all blocker issues, fix or
waive
all critical issues and fix all CA blockers. We would also like to
take
votes into account as you can read in the Bug Priority Guidelines
[3].
4. Apache NetBeans 9.0 Beta will be primarily tested on latest JDK 8
and
JDK 10.
[1]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_NetCAT-2B&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=ujHcbmMkNwpWnKqCy-jXHGI0Kaxm4689-ErHws1DD-0&s=4rtnO7qW0bj_bQ0cQPFMK7IqFcvLoRBorPEbKjFmXRw&e=
9.0+Schedule
[2]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_NetBean&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=ujHcbmMkNwpWnKqCy-jXHGI0Kaxm4689-ErHws1DD-0&s=vfwrsACQertGtA3IuRhOosO-QZeGSBzsO2IK7p-Dkps&e=
s+9.0+Release+Criteria
[3]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_display_NETBEANS_Bug-2B&d=DwIDaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=ujHcbmMkNwpWnKqCy-jXHGI0Kaxm4689-ErHws1DD-0&s=FrLMFtU24N51mae5kqwwV8FuzEoaw251EPrGApMDS_0&e=
Priority+Guidelines
Please let us know if we can fly with this plan. :)
Thanks for your feedback!
--
Best regards,
Jirka & Hermien
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