My understanding is that the primary reason for JetBrains to create Kotlin
was so that the language IntelliJ IDEA would be written in would be
controled by JetBrains.
In other words, JetBrains doesn’t seem to me to be a guardian of Java, in
On Monday, March 12, 2018, cowwoc <cow...@bbs.darktech.org> wrote:
> Maybe... but it's not hard to imagine a negative spin to this story.
> Any way you look at it, recent events will increase the fragmentation of
> the Java platform.
> Oracle just gave away Java EE and Java SE desktop. All they have left is
> Java SE server-side and, to a great degree they don't get paid for that.
> Most servers run Linux where they will never see a dime. Java on cell
> phones got killed for different political and legal reasons.
> Java on the browser might pick up by way of WebAssembly, but it will not
> help Oracle financially.
> JetBrains and friends are strongly diversified in web development and
> alternative languages that run on the Java platform (e.g. Kotlin). The
> latter don't benefit much from recent JDK releases. Most releases are
> Java-language-oriented and the platform is already good enough for their
> needs. If Oracle drops the ball on the platform (even indirectly by
> reducing the amount of paid employees), I can imagine these alt-languages
> jumping ship from Java to .NET without a major impact to JetBrains.
> Something major will have to change in the next 1-2 years, otherwise we
> will experience increasing fragmentation of the Java platform. Open-source
> will actually make matters worse on this front.
> So yeah, we got what we asked for (open-sourcing Java) but it wasn't what
> people had secretly hoped for (strong Java development, for free).
> I hope I turn out to be wrong.
> On 2018-03-12 12:20 AM, Wade Chandler wrote:
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis <cjgun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
>>> Oracle. Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have
>>> on a computer.
>> Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can
>> certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those systems
>> too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can
>> definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants to keep
>> this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care about.
>> This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to figure out
>> what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved as well.
>> They are very dependent with their current products.
>> The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
>>> their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude
>>> from running on their platform. Apple already stopped shipping Java.
>>> “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist
>> on both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not
>> shipping something directly is not the same as exclude.
>> The message is clear: migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac. Java
>>> will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not
>>> enough to be attractive to Oracle. There will be no more cross-platform
>>> Java (or anything else) development. Browsers will continue to be
>>> available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
>>> platform you will abide by their rules.
>> The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the
>> languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper.
>> It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
>>> Apple or Microsoft.
>>> What is the remedy? Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
>>> CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.
>> I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t
>> do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support
>> desktop Java since we highly depend on it.
>> Wade Chandler
>> e: cons...@wadechandler.com
>> t: @wadechandler
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: