>From the Java the lamguage.. not the Platform, not Swing.. Sven
Am 12.03.2018 08:11 schrieb "Geertjan Wielenga" < [email protected]>: > That’s true. But Kotlin, unless I’m mistaken, exists so that JetBrains > products can be ported away from Java. > > Gj > > On Monday, March 12, 2018, Sven Reimers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hmm, > > > > the primary product of JetBrains runs on top of Swing - correct? > > > > Sven > > > > Am 12.03.2018 07:43 schrieb "Geertjan Wielenga" < > > [email protected]>: > > > > > My understanding is that the primary reason for JetBrains to create > > Kotlin > > > was so that the language IntelliJ IDEA would be written in would be > > > controled by JetBrains. > > > > > > In other words, JetBrains doesn’t seem to me to be a guardian of Java, > in > > > any way. > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > On Monday, March 12, 2018, cowwoc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Maybe... but it's not hard to imagine a negative spin to this story. > > > > > > > > Any way you look at it, recent events will increase the fragmentation > > of > > > > the Java platform. > > > > > > > > Oracle just gave away Java EE and Java SE desktop. All they have left > > is > > > > Java SE server-side and, to a great degree they don't get paid for > > that. > > > > Most servers run Linux where they will never see a dime. Java on cell > > > > phones got killed for different political and legal reasons. > > > > > > > > Java on the browser might pick up by way of WebAssembly, but it will > > not > > > > help Oracle financially. > > > > > > > > JetBrains and friends are strongly diversified in web development and > > > > alternative languages that run on the Java platform (e.g. Kotlin). > The > > > > latter don't benefit much from recent JDK releases. Most releases are > > > > Java-language-oriented and the platform is already good enough for > > their > > > > needs. If Oracle drops the ball on the platform (even indirectly by > > > > reducing the amount of paid employees), I can imagine these > > alt-languages > > > > jumping ship from Java to .NET without a major impact to JetBrains. > > > > > > > > Something major will have to change in the next 1-2 years, otherwise > we > > > > will experience increasing fragmentation of the Java platform. > > > Open-source > > > > will actually make matters worse on this front. > > > > > > > > So yeah, we got what we asked for (open-sourcing Java) but it wasn't > > what > > > > people had secretly hoped for (strong Java development, for free). > > > > > > > > I hope I turn out to be wrong. > > > > > > > > Gili > > > > > > > > On 2018-03-12 12:20 AM, Wade Chandler wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at > > > >>> Oracle. Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to > > have > > > >>> JSE > > > >>> on a computer. > > > >>> > > > >> Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One > can > > > >> certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those > > systems > > > >> too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs > can > > > >> definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants > to > > > keep > > > >> this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care > > > about. > > > >> This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to figure > > out > > > >> what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved > as > > > well. > > > >> They are very dependent with their current products. > > > >> > > > >> The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft > own > > > >>> their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will > exclude > > > >>> Java > > > >>> from running on their platform. Apple already stopped shipping > Java. > > > >>> > > > >>> “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes > > exist > > > >> on both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not > > > >> shipping something directly is not the same as exclude. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> The message is clear: migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac. > > > Java > > > >>> will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is > > not > > > >>> big > > > >>> enough to be attractive to Oracle. There will be no more > > > cross-platform > > > >>> Java (or anything else) development. Browsers will continue to be > > > >>> available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody > else's > > > >>> platform you will abide by their rules. > > > >>> > > > >> The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in > > the > > > >> languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper. > > > >> > > > >> It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to > > either > > > >>> Apple or Microsoft. > > > >>> > > > >>> What is the remedy? Make alternatives so attractive IT managers > will > > > >>> CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative. > > > >>> > > > >> I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly > > doesn’t > > > >> do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help > > support > > > >> desktop Java since we highly depend on it. > > > >> > > > >> Wade > > > >> > > > >> ======================= > > > >> > > > >> Wade Chandler > > > >> e: [email protected] > > > >> t: @wadechandler > > > >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > --------- > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans. > incubator.apache.org > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] > > > >> > > > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > --------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans. > incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
