Yes, the JVM will always be with us. :-) But in general, firstly, it's good to have had this official statement from Oracle.
Secondly, for some technologies, some time lines have been given in terms of their continued support -- enabling there to either be very strong push back (you'd be surprised how carefully large organizations listen to push back to their announcements) or for other organizations such as Gluon to pick up various pieces to push them forward. Gj On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 8:35 AM, Sven Reimers <[email protected]> wrote: > From the Java the lamguage.. not the Platform, not Swing.. > > Sven > > Am 12.03.2018 08:11 schrieb "Geertjan Wielenga" < > [email protected]>: > > > That’s true. But Kotlin, unless I’m mistaken, exists so that JetBrains > > products can be ported away from Java. > > > > Gj > > > > On Monday, March 12, 2018, Sven Reimers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hmm, > > > > > > the primary product of JetBrains runs on top of Swing - correct? > > > > > > Sven > > > > > > Am 12.03.2018 07:43 schrieb "Geertjan Wielenga" < > > > [email protected]>: > > > > > > > My understanding is that the primary reason for JetBrains to create > > > Kotlin > > > > was so that the language IntelliJ IDEA would be written in would be > > > > controled by JetBrains. > > > > > > > > In other words, JetBrains doesn’t seem to me to be a guardian of > Java, > > in > > > > any way. > > > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > > > On Monday, March 12, 2018, cowwoc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Maybe... but it's not hard to imagine a negative spin to this > story. > > > > > > > > > > Any way you look at it, recent events will increase the > fragmentation > > > of > > > > > the Java platform. > > > > > > > > > > Oracle just gave away Java EE and Java SE desktop. All they have > left > > > is > > > > > Java SE server-side and, to a great degree they don't get paid for > > > that. > > > > > Most servers run Linux where they will never see a dime. Java on > cell > > > > > phones got killed for different political and legal reasons. > > > > > > > > > > Java on the browser might pick up by way of WebAssembly, but it > will > > > not > > > > > help Oracle financially. > > > > > > > > > > JetBrains and friends are strongly diversified in web development > and > > > > > alternative languages that run on the Java platform (e.g. Kotlin). > > The > > > > > latter don't benefit much from recent JDK releases. Most releases > are > > > > > Java-language-oriented and the platform is already good enough for > > > their > > > > > needs. If Oracle drops the ball on the platform (even indirectly by > > > > > reducing the amount of paid employees), I can imagine these > > > alt-languages > > > > > jumping ship from Java to .NET without a major impact to JetBrains. > > > > > > > > > > Something major will have to change in the next 1-2 years, > otherwise > > we > > > > > will experience increasing fragmentation of the Java platform. > > > > Open-source > > > > > will actually make matters worse on this front. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah, we got what we asked for (open-sourcing Java) but it > wasn't > > > what > > > > > people had secretly hoped for (strong Java development, for free). > > > > > > > > > > I hope I turn out to be wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Gili > > > > > > > > > > On 2018-03-12 12:20 AM, Wade Chandler wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE > at > > > > >>> Oracle. Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to > > > have > > > > >>> JSE > > > > >>> on a computer. > > > > >>> > > > > >> Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One > > can > > > > >> certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those > > > systems > > > > >> too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs > > can > > > > >> definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants > > to > > > > keep > > > > >> this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they > care > > > > about. > > > > >> This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to > figure > > > out > > > > >> what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved > > as > > > > well. > > > > >> They are very dependent with their current products. > > > > >> > > > > >> The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft > > own > > > > >>> their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will > > exclude > > > > >>> Java > > > > >>> from running on their platform. Apple already stopped shipping > > Java. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes > > > exist > > > > >> on both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them > not > > > > >> shipping something directly is not the same as exclude. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> The message is clear: migrate to .net for windows or swift for > mac. > > > > Java > > > > >>> will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market > is > > > not > > > > >>> big > > > > >>> enough to be attractive to Oracle. There will be no more > > > > cross-platform > > > > >>> Java (or anything else) development. Browsers will continue to > be > > > > >>> available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody > > else's > > > > >>> platform you will abide by their rules. > > > > >>> > > > > >> The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written > in > > > the > > > > >> languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper. > > > > >> > > > > >> It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to > > > either > > > > >>> Apple or Microsoft. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> What is the remedy? Make alternatives so attractive IT managers > > will > > > > >>> CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative. > > > > >>> > > > > >> I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly > > > doesn’t > > > > >> do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help > > > support > > > > >> desktop Java since we highly depend on it. > > > > >> > > > > >> Wade > > > > >> > > > > >> ======================= > > > > >> > > > > >> Wade Chandler > > > > >> e: [email protected] > > > > >> t: @wadechandler > > > > >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------- > > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans. > > incubator.apache.org > > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [email protected] > > > > >> > > > > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/ > Mailing+lists > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > --------- > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@netbeans. > > incubator.apache.org > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
