If I understood the message of the white paper NB will have to be distributed through MS and Apple's app stores (I have no idea what the process for getting their approval or the cost of doing that may be) and that it will have to be shipped as a containerized application that includes the jdk. Java (as we know it) will not be running on either platform.
Java will continue as "multi-platform" but it will most certainly no longer be cross-platform. This is as C/C++ is multi-platform but not cross-platform. Docker is going over big because it solves some problems. Shortly, nothing may be running on any computer except as a container. And that has huge implications not only for NB but for every Apache product and lots of other products (including internally developed business apps). Oracle is simply responding to the realities of the industry. We're not living in the decade of 2000 anymore. Things have changed. Oracle is responding to that change. Apache is going to have to respond to that change. NB is going to have to respond to that change. The white paper states strongly that packaging must change. Jlink is the current packaging of the future for Java (sounds like it just creates a container but doesn't say so in so many words). Will it be possible to package Java as a container and continue to use it as such?? Who can tell? The white paper sounds like Java will only be available if containerized with your application: i.e. each Java application will be running a separate instance of the new modularized jre with only those modules your application needs. Jdk11 will be supported for 8 years. Oracle said they will continue to develop Swing during those years. JavaFX has some very nice features I would expect will bleed into Java/Swing but JavaFX also has some ugly warts. Swing has been very good for many years and it sounds like will get better during the next 8. If you look at the build dependencies for OpenJFX it's easy to see why Oracle would not want Java to be dependent on all those other open source projects over which they have no control -- it's very logical for Oracle to spin off JavaFX and keep it separate from Java proper. Gluon is a logical perpetrator for such a mission. They've done a pretty good job with SceneBuilder. Will there be a jdk12, 13, etc? A lot will change before 2026 when jdk11 support ends. By then Docker may be a thing of the past, replaced by latest and greatest. All the operating systems will be entirely different. Many other companies have HUGE investments in Java -- Oracle is not the Lone Ranger. Indeed, I believe every major player other than Microsoft and Apple are at the table of OpenJDK. The message is clear: Java will be changing. How and into what nobody knows at this point. The industry is in transition and will never stop transitioning. Nobody should be blaming Oracle for that. Will Java die? I doubt it. The alternatives are not attractive (at least to me). Will it morph? Definitely. Jdk11 will probably be the last Java we would recognize at this point. At some point Java will no longer run as Java even on Linux. I'm an old geezer who doesn't much care for the changes but the changes will come. Security is essential and will drive the changes of the industry. Containers address that concern. Us old geezers get brittle and a day will come when the next change "breaks the camel's back" as the saying goes. We'll drop out but you young bucks will adapt and continue driving the industry (and Java) forward into a more secure digital world. I wouldn't say with Geertjan, "It's all good" but it IS probably all necessary.... Now, as for "web first" that's a discussion for another day! > > > Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can > > certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those systems > > too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can > > definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants to > keep > > this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care > about. > > This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to figure out > > what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved as > well. > > They are very dependent with their current products. > > > > > > > > > “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist on > > both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not > shipping > > something directly is not the same as exclude. > > > > > > > The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the > > languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper. > > > > > > I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t > > do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support > > desktop Java since we highly depend on it. > > > > Wade > > >
