On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > As I said, let's not worry about the certification thing. I doubt it > is really worth the effort developing a formal certification program > for so few. It really has to be thousands of possible candidates to > make these things work and end users would be the only way of getting > those numbers. It is only to answer the simple question "How many > people are making or are likely to make significant coding > contributions to the project?" (I don't think TDF has the first clue > about certification in general, it's just that happens to be where > they are identifying their main coders.) Perhaps Dave's svn authors > list would do it. Maybe its just not an issue. Just occurred to me > that if someone asked me how many people work on AOO code I wouldn't > be able to give any sort of answer. >
Sorry, I was responding to the topic of the thread that you started. I'm not really interesting in rehashing the "whose is longer" debate with LibreOffice. -Rob > On 9 June 2013 21:37, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Ian Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On 9 June 2013 20:35, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Dave Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Ian Lynch wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My main thought was market confidence. If LO can say they have 26 >>>>>> developers working on code it would be interesting to have a >>>>>> comparison on a similar "like for like" basis. >>>>> >>>>> Before we can make a like for like comparison we need to understand the >>>>> TDF process: >>>>> >>>>> From the page you cite: >>>>>> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the >>>>>> Certification Committee, and subsequently peer-reviewed by the >>>>>> Engineering Steering Committee. >>>>> >>>>> But there is also a disclaimer (with a grammatical error of translation): >>>>>> Notes on the aforementioned entries: our list of certified developers is >>>>>> for your information, alphabetically sorted, and not necessarily >>>>>> complete nor up-to-date. Specifically does TDF not recommend nor endorse >>>>>> any of the listed companies. Interested parties are asked to >>>>>> individually assess if the listed companies are suitable for their >>>>>> respective requirements. If you notice mistakes or inaccuracies, please >>>>>> inform us [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Unless we can replicate this process I am afraid that any "like for like" >>>>> comparison may be fodder for press FUD. >>>>> >>>> >>>> For the same credentials (and 100 pounds) one can become a Knight of >>>> the Sovereign Military Order of Sealand: >>>> >>>> http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/knight >>>> >>>>> We would need to use a publicly measurable approach like "more than X >>>>> commits to the code base". It is likely that X would need to be supported >>>>> by examining the commit logs of LO and comparing with their list finding >>>>> the person with the least commits who is on their list. >>>>> >>>>> If someone can provide this comparison then I would support a blog post. >>>>> This could also point to our full committer count to show that the >>>>> project values all contributions. >>>>> >>>>> We can also emphasize that at the ASF it is individuals and not companies >>>>> that are contributing. >>>>> >>>> >>>> The other part is this: what the market really needs is an easy way >>>> for any competent developer to learn AOO programming, whether macros, >>>> extensions or core, and be productive. This is a need for good, >>>> up-to-date documentation, sample apps, etc. When that is in place >>>> then we might be lucky enough to have a large number of developers who >>>> are not also committers. But until we've more fully enabled this >>>> larger developer ecosystem, then any certification program would >>>> merely be self-dealing, as it appears to be with LibreOffice. And >>>> that doesn't really accomplish anything. It is just heaping titles on >>>> the same core rather than extending the reach. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> -Rob >>> >>> It wasn't so much the certification part that seems important. More >>> that there are 26 people who are judged to be capable of (and probably >>> willing) to make a significant contribution to LO code. How many AOO >>> people can similarly be identified? Its just a simple thing if its >>> easy to present. I'm not suggesting anyone spend a lot of time on it. >>> >> >> I assume all LibreOffice developers are "capable" of contributing to >> OpenOffice, at least at the technical level. Vice versa as well, of >> course. >> >> So if I were looking at a meaningful certification program and not >> just a project-specific marketing campaign, I'd probable look for a >> way to target the larger market, i.e., the combined developer base. >> Otherwise it is like offering a certification for Windows 7 only, or >> the apocryphal doctor who specializes in the left hand. I'd define >> the competency as "Open source productivity" or "the open source >> office", and consider both desktop software as well as complimentary >> server software like content management, and the skills needed to get >> this all working together. >> >> -Rob >> >> >>> -- >>> Ian >>> >>> Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications >>> >>> Headline points in the 2014 and 2015 school league tables >>> >>> www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 >>> >>> The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, >>> Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. 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