On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 3:59 AM, Armin Le Grand <armin.le.gr...@me.com>wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
>
> On 27.09.2013 17:51, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 11:38 AM, Armin Le Grand <armin.le.gr...@me.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Rob,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27.09.2013 14:50, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My guess is that the TM are not converted to path. Font diven logos
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> be unstable across different renders engine.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we still get many visitors using older browsers, even I.E. 6. So
>>>>>> I'd recommend using a rasterized version of the logo on the website or
>>>>>> anywhere else we expect random users to visit. There are ways of
>>>>>> having both SVG and raster images, but if we're not seeing consistent
>>>>>> SVG rendering then it would be safer to just render via Inkscape and
>>>>>> use that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a way to have a uncritical SVG version - just convert all
>>>>> text to
>>>>> polygons first (and use absolute polygon paths, e.g. in inkscape). That
>>>>> version would be safe since it would not use any font references, only
>>>>> graphics (polygons). Relying on font rendering in SVG does simply not
>>>>> work
>>>>> for multiple different systems, versions of these and even evtl.
>>>>> different
>>>>> languages and installed fonts.
>>>>>
>>>>> That might fix this one issue, but what about older browsers like I.E.
>>>> 6? Will the logo render perfectly everywhere? We have challenges
>>>> getting even HTML and Javascript to work right everywhere. I don't
>>>> think we want to risk having our brand image rendering poorly. We've
>>>> gone 12 years with a raster logo on the website. It works.
>>>>
>>>> And I should mention that we get 200K+ visits/month from mobile phones
>>> and tablets as well.
>>>
>>> And finally, converting to polygons in advance prevents the TrueType
>> engines from doing its best job at rendering the font hinting at
>> various scales. Compare it yourself. Take 12-point text, convert to
>> polygons and then scale up (or down) the polygons. Then try again
>> with an actual font reference. It might vary by font, but a
>> well-designed font will render much better if you do not convert to
>> polygons first.
>>
>
> Lot of arguments, and all somewhat applyable. Do not forget that the
> alternative suggestion was to provide pre-rendered bitmaps. If you compare
> that approach with SVG containing polygons I think the latter will be
> superior in all aspects (size, quality, scalability).
> If the various SVG reneders would render fonts the same on all systems we
> would not have a problem. They do not. Polygons are rendered the same on
> all systems. Font hinting may be lost, but do not forget that 'retina'
> displays and higher DPIs in general will make that 'trick' less important
> over time.
> Also, we are not talking about convincing people to do intense text
> editing without font hinting, it's a logo and only two letters ('TM') are
> small enough to profit from text hinting.
>
> Sincerely,
> Armin
>
> BTW: For experimental test purposes I made a primitive renderer which does
> not even support fonts at all, thus all text in the edit view is rendered
> as polygons with sub-pixel AAing, and it does not look bad at all...
Please look on my site for an SVG source
http://people.apache.org/~jza/index.html
The source is:
<div id="bannerleft"><a title="Apache OpenOffice" href="/"><img
id="ooo-logo" alt="Apache OpenOffice" src="svg/logo.svg"/></a></div>
I've don't see any issues under firefox/opera althought konqueror couldnt
display it on the current version.
Safari Chrome and IE 10 works pretty ok, only big issue is the spacing
between the <img /> and the title text. There are fallbacks techniques for
old browsers to get the PNG like the following CSS workaround
.ooo-logo {
background: url(svg/logo.png) no-repeat 0px 0px;
background: rgba(0,0,0,0) url(svg/logo.svg) no-repeat 0px 0px;
}
http://tobias.is/geeky/webperf/cross-browser-css-technique-for-svg-sprites-with-png-fallback/
I also have many comments on the HTML since there seem to be 'tagless'
making it very SEO unfriendly. For example, the slogan "the free
productivity suite" is a plain text wrapped around a <div:bannercenter> and
what it seems a useless <br /> as opposed to increase the padding-top 39pt
at the ooo.css (like 40).
HTML5 also introduce new tags like <header>, <sections>, <article>,
<footer> and <nav>.
>
>
>
>> -Rob
>>
>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Armin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my Nokia N900
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri Sep 27 04:11:33 2013 David Gerard <dger...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27 September 2013 09:23, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But a note:
>>>>>>>>> The "M" in "TM" is shown cut off and the representation of "TM" is
>>>>>>>>> different in Internet Explorer and Firefox, once serifs, once
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> serifs, at an official logo should not be.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Display artifact in Firefox. It's fine in Inkscape or on Wikimedia
>>>>>>>> Commons:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**File:Aoo4-main-tm-logo-rgb.svg<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aoo4-main-tm-logo-rgb.svg>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - d.
>>>>>>>>
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--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://www.openoffice.org
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