Eric Hoch wrote:
Hi Jean-Christophe,
Am Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:33:00 +0900, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
No!!!!!
That's Joergs opionen. He used his sun.com Emailaddress but that's
all. Sun has given Mac Port into the hands of independent
developers. All Sunnies working on OS X do this in their spare
time. They don't get paid for this.
I would suggest that Joerg use a personal account to prevent confusion
as to the origin of his statements versus a statement from SUN themselves.
And as Oscar wrote, there are only 2.5 people working on NO.
Yes and three working on the OS X OOo X11 port.
Actually, it appears to be four. Starting with yourself Eric, I count
Eric B, Kevin H and Maho N. I've used code from Maho to build 1.9 M110
on Tiger. I'm back trying to build 1.1.4 on Tiger and I have some files
from Eric B and I will repatch the source code and try again.
Instead of having five developers working on a stable OOo 2.0 X11
port, which would lead to an earlier release of NO 2.0, a better
exchange of ideas, better communication and maybe to one Mac OS X
team, we have three developers working on X11 and two developers
who write a nice GUI for the X11 code base when all the work is
done all bugs are solved. This is what I meant with stealing.
Code borrowing is the norm in large projects. Patrick even donated his
fixes for 1.1.4 to the code base.
Again. I appretiate the work of Ed and Patrick and I can imagine
that they work as hard as we X11 folks do and that they have as
much work to do as we have.
Sometimes they have more. However, you do have a valid point, the X11
and NeoJ projects need more folks to work on code fixes and quality
checks. I don't mind testing build capabilities and to look for
errors. I have time to do so. However, work does and will take
precedence.
Considering the problem from the user's side It is clear that removing X11
dependancy from the code
should be considered a priority.
Indeed you are right here.
I tend to disagree. Building in Aqua capabilities should be a
priority. I would not want a Mac Only version nor should one exist.
X11 is an anomaly in the OSX world. OSX development does not happen on the X11 base. X11 is
only here to give access to legacy applications.
What a complete bullshit. Do you really think Apple would release
an X11 if X11 is anomaly? X11 is normal for a UNIX and Mac OS X is
a UNIX if you didn't knew that. Apple only felt that X11 is anomaly
but was teached better by its end-users.
I agree. X11 is not an anomaly in the UNIX world where SUN does most of
the development for OpenOffice. We have the task of merging the X11
version of OpenOffice into the Aqua world of the Mac. Apple even has a
"Porting UNIX applications to Aqua" section.
OSX development does not happen on the X11 base. X11 is
only here to give access to legacy applications.
O.K. We, OOo X11 devs and supporters, can stop working on the X11
base immediately and see how long it will take for Ed and Patrick
to have a NO 2.0 without a X11 2.0.
It would never happen. However, with the support of the team working on
the Mac-X11 version, an Aqua version of OOo 2.0 will happen.
Rumours say that it was Patrick Lubys decission, back when he
worked at SUN, to use X11 for Mac OS X port of OOo and do the
migration to Cocoa later. Go ask him.
I don't know what Patrick's decision was, but porting to Mac X11 is much
easier than trying to rewrite OOo for Aqua.
If Sun thinks providing what looks like legacy applications on
OSX is an option, it is very possible that OSX users will not
show much interest in OOo.
Again. Sun has nothing to do with the Mac port. They are not
involved in the Mac port.
This is very true. The porting project is not a SUN product.
Why can't Sun take the responsibility of working on removing X11
dependancy and still keep a portable code base ?
Why should Sun remove the X11 depency? Afaik they need it for Linux
OOo so it would be nonsense to do so.
And support for UNIXes. If they removed X11 support, then OOo would not
run on their primary audience, UNIXes and Linux(es). Thus, the porting
project has to look into ways to provide native graphical user interface
(GUI) support. Thus, the porting project is here do to just that. In
this case, two teams are working at this, the X11 team to make sure that
OOo 2.0 (and 1.1.5 when available) will build without problems on Mac's
X11. The Neo/J team is there to create a native Aqua version, at the
present time with Carbon/Java and maybe in the future with Cocoa.
I feel that this is the best method, and maybe Patrick felt the same
way. If you visit the NeoOffice web site (www.neooffice.org) and look
around you will find that there was, at one time, an effort to directly
port OpenOffice directly to Aqua using Cocoa. This was abandoned and
the Carbon/Java effort was initiated. This has not stopped with the
release of NeoOffice/J 1.1. There is a timeline on the Trinity BBS (the
location of the NeoJ forums) for what may happen in the next year or so.
James McKenzie
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