Hi Chris, Thanks very much for your long and thoughtful message regarding the Apache Shindig project.
As I've described previously, we've made an initial investment in time and up-skilling, gone through a proof-of-concept and prototype phase and await funding for a rebuild of our weather displays using the Gadget hosting and rendering facilities provided by Shindig. We are planning to host our services over Liferay, using its embedded Shindig service. I've also managed to build out a prototype of Shindig-over-Jetty as a much lighter host should we decide not to use Liferay for all of our services. As you, we've focused mostly on the Gadget containment and rendering provided by Shindig (and are quite excited about that as it allows our developers to focus on individual gadgets rather than either the portal environment or inadvertent multiple-gadget interaction across the global JavaScript space. The containment alone is worth the cost of entry. That said I still hope to see a stable trunk that we can use for what would be a large part of our enterprise weather delivery. We simply can't use a hobbyist-level software package for that. I am perhaps rather old-school in not quite grokking the importance of GitHub, but I can accept yours and some of my co-workers opinions on its viability and rising importance in the dev world. We would largely be interested mostly in the Gadget containment and rendering facilities, as we have yet to use the OpenSocial features, nor do we see a requirement for them in our aviation- and industry-focused products. So splitting the project would (to me) not be an issue. But I can understand that some might fear that such a split might endanger the viability of the overall package. We look forward to a successful migration of the active project to a new home, if that should come to pass. At this point I cannot unfortunately commit to providing code or support as our project is currently on hold. But having Shindig resurface on GitHub would be almost a requirement for it to be funded at this point. I assume that all the other 'lurkers' out there who are using Shindig may be in a similar predicament. All the best, Ichiro On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Chris Spiliotopoulos < chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > having listened carefully to all the voices from the community so far, I > have come down to the following conclusion. > > There are many professionals among us that have been working in the shadows > supporting this project in diverse ways - evangelizing, advocating, > integrating, etc. without the 'shoulders' of a bold-named company like > Google or IBM (who has been the active maintainer of this project for a > number of years now). > > My gut feeling so far has told me that - as has already happened with many > other technologies - these companies usually invest an amount of time and > money for experimenting with different types of technologies and if things > don't go as planned in the long run, what seems to be happening is that > some other company takes over on the experiment and so on, until no big > name is really interested any more. > > During this lifecycle, many other companies are starting to adopt the > technologies and they are indeed putting them into good use to serve their > purposes. And this is exactly where we stand at the moment. I can totally > understand the feelings coming from Ichiro and Darren and at the same time > I get Ryan's point of view. So how do we handle this situation? Speaking > for myself, as I come from Greece and I have to live and work in a country > that is in crisis mode for quite a few years now, all I can say is that a > crisis can be the mother of invention and change for a better tomorrow. > And this is exactly how I see this situation - in a metaphorical way of > course :) > > I think that now is the right time to make a change. Things have changed > in our industry during the last 10 years and so have trends and > communities. Maybe 10 years ago, the Apache Foundation was the place to be > but now this is definitely not the case - of course this doesn't mean that > the foundation is not the birthplace of great technologies. But all the > action now is over at GitHub. > > So, since Ryan gave us the green light (from the foundation's perspective) > that the project can be migrated, I'm outlining my proposals: > > - We break down the Shindig project into a number of distinct parts - > personally I've never used the OpenSocial features and have no interest > in > them since I'm heavily focused on the gadget containment and rendering > facilities. But there are people like Rene who have invested a lot of > time > and work on extending the OpenSocial features. > - We give it a brand new name - never liked the name Shindig in the > first place (speaking for myself once more). I think that this is very > important since we want to make a bold statement to communities that > this > technology is active, we're using it and others should try it out > because > it may solve them a number of problems. > - Create a modern web site on GitHub where we can all share our > experiences through show cases, usage examples and tutorials > - We start thinking around the concept of a gadget-centered marketplace > - in the context of show casing stuff. If I remember correctly Darren's > team has already launched a project which is very similar to the iGoogle > web site so he could certainly provide some ideas. > - Issues and feature requests can be handled directly though GitHub in a > more agile and community oriented approach without any of the > bureaucratic > processes imposed by the Apache Foundation. Once the 'monolith' is > broken > down into different projects then it would be more manageable and people > having certain skills could join forces > - By utilizing technologies like Docker there is no need for hosting > resources and sample material - we can bundle our examples, show cases, > etc > in self-sufficient Docker images and host them over @ DockerHub. The > integration with GitHub is seamless so this is a no brainer > - Reach out to Atlassian, Jive and the rest of the companies who we know > for sure that they have invested a lot in this technology (and actively > use > it) to help with this effort - e.g. Atlassian has extended Shindig > container & engine to meet their requirements and they definitely have > devs > who know the bits and pieces > > So the question now for me is really simple. How many of us want to move > over to the next phase without getting into any sort of credibility issues > regarding our choices? +1 from me. > > Kind regards, > Chris > > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:49 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> wrote: > > > I completely understand. I can't speak to the continued support of > vendors > > who have adopted Shindig, but I would imagine that they can't just stop > > supporting the products consuming Shindig. I am sorry that this puts you > > in a tough position but this is a natural cycle of open source software. > > With no community willing to support and enhance the project there is not > > much we can do. If someone takes the code and the project regains life > > somewhere else, that is great. > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:22 PM Ichiro Furusato < > ichiro.furus...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Ryan, > > > > > > While the code is stable and available I can't go to our CIO and > > architects > > > and > > > advocate use of a project as the basis for our online delivery if the > > > project has > > > folded. We were planning to replace literally five separate legacy > > portals > > > (that > > > have been accumulating like mold rather than serve as replacements) > using > > > Liferay, with our online widgets being replaced by Open Social Gadgets. > > > With > > > the demise of Shindig I assume Liferay's support of embedded Shindig > will > > > likely disappear, and therefore my ability to advocate for its use. > > > > > > It's not the availability of the code, it's the living status of the > > > project. If the > > > project is dead I can't very well suggest we base millions of dollars > of > > > online > > > delivery over the next 5-10 years on it. As I am responsible for that > > > decision > > > I could hardly be said to be responsible in advocating for its use at > > this > > > stage. > > > > > > Sadly. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Ichiro > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 3:01 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Ichiro, while the project will move to the attic, it doesn't mean you > > > can't > > > > continue to use it. If it is stable enough as it is right now for > you > > > than > > > > you should be able to continue to use it as is. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:59 AM Ichiro Furusato < > > > ichiro.furus...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > To add just one more voice to the chorus, I'm likewise very sad to > > hear > > > > of > > > > > the demise of what > > > > > seemed (until this notice) to be a functional and mature project. > For > > > the > > > > > past nine months I have > > > > > advocated replacing the four (!) existing (legacy) aviation and > > > industry > > > > > delivery platforms of the > > > > > Meteorological Service of New Zealand (MetService) with a > > > Liferay/Shindig > > > > > based site. Over the > > > > > past year we prototyped a replacement service and are currently > > > awaiting > > > > > the next project > > > > > funding cycle. Having to go back to our executive management team > and > > > > tell > > > > > them that the > > > > > basic architecture of our proposed service is somewhat > embarrassing, > > > and > > > > we > > > > > will likewise now > > > > > need to reevaluate and design a new solution. As the lead designer > I > > > have > > > > > been quite happy > > > > > with the Shindig/Open Social Gadget technology, and we had looked > > > forward > > > > > to a robust > > > > > implementation cycle, replacing fifteen years of crufty service > with > > a > > > > > shiny new Gadget-based > > > > > solution. > > > > > > > > > > Sincere thanks to the development team for an excellent job, very > > sorry > > > > to > > > > > hear about it being > > > > > put into the Attic. There may have been inactivity in the dev side > at > > > > > Apache but we were actively > > > > > using, and planning to use it for a substantial part of our online > > > > weather > > > > > delivery solution. > > > > > > > > > > Ichiro > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs, > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted > to > > > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic. I have > > > already > > > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months > > board > > > > > report > > > > > > (below). > > > > > > > > > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in > > > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months > > and > > > > the > > > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now. This can > > > > > certainly > > > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1]. > > > > > > > > > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be > sure > > to > > > > > keep > > > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> > > > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM > > > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project > > > > > > To: bo...@apache.org <bo...@apache.org> > > > > > > Cc: priv...@shindig.apache.org <priv...@shindig.apache.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache > > DirectMemory > > > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the > > > > > > Attic; and > > > > > > > > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best > > > > > > interest of the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project > > > > > > due to inactivity; > > > > > > > > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig > > > > > > project is hereby terminated; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with > > > > > > oversight over the software developed by the Apache Shindig > > > > > > Project; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is > > > > > > hereby terminated; and be it further > > > > > > > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Chris Spiliotopoulos > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> >
