Hi Patrick,

Thanks for clarifying I think I get it now. So the issues is users having to 
migrate now to  [email protected] and later to 
[email protected]? Thats less of a worry in my opinion. Because once the 
project graduates, the incubator list auto redirect to TLP list. Users will 
slowly change it themselves. I agree migrating from google groups to ASF list 
will be a big one. 

I think we should have lots of lessons learned from Open Office dealing with 
magnitude more number of users. 

Suresh

On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:20 PM, Patrick Wendell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Suresh,
> 
> The request here is actually to *not* use the Apache user list while in the
> incubator. The issue is that we don't want to ask almost 1000 people to
> migrate twice between two different lists in a short period of time. That
> seems like the most confusion of all options.
> 
> If there is a requirement that eventually we get all lists over to apache,
> then so be it. But having a double migration is something I'd personally
> strongly object to and I feel that others in the community would also
> object to this.
> 
> Let's just defer the migration of the users list until we graduate to a TLP
> - this is a completely sensible option and will be easy to explain to the
> broader user community.
> 
> - Patrick
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Suresh Marru <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Andy,
>> 
>> Its strongly advisable to have all the lists on ASF infrastructure. The
>> only reason the incubators are not encouraged against users list is to keep
>> the community together. But if spark already had a user base and the
>> projects wants to have a user list, you should go for it. That will be way
>> less confusing.
>> 
>> If there are no objections, I can request a user list.
>> 
>> Suresh
>> On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> + [email protected] to loop in those who haven't
>> subscribed
>>> to [email protected] yet, (also because my emails are getting bounced by
>>> Apache's spam filters).
>>> 
>>> I wanted to respond here in the conversation about the mailing list
>>> migration that was happening on the email thread called "Re: A wiki for
>>> Spark (on Apache infra)"...
>>> 
>>> Assuming that we Apache requires us to migrate from google groups to
>> lists
>>> on Apache infra, we might consider waiting to migrating the users list to
>>> apache infra until after we graduate to a TLP, so that we only have to
>>> migrate it once.
>>> 
>>> Here's why. I assume with each list migration that requires subscribers
>> to
>>> do work, we will lose some subscribers. If we ask them to migrate to an
>>> incubator user list now and then again to yet a different list when we
>>> graduate to a TLP (which we hope to do fairly quickly), it seems like we
>>> will irritate and lose strictly more subscribers.
>>> 
>>> This requirement to migrate infra twice as part of moving to Apache
>> seems a
>>> bit hard on communities. It also seems like a requirement that will go
>> away
>>> if the changes you are pushing for to the incubation process (i.e.
>> podling
>>> TLPs) actually ever happen.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, I see our options as:
>>> 
>>> 1. Migrate only the dev list now (since this is a smaller core group that
>>> is more likely to migrate with us) and wait to create an apache users
>> list
>>> until we graduate and migrate from the users google group then. Con: it's
>>> confusing to have user and dev lists on different infra.
>>> 2. Move the users list now, in which case we go with the migration plan I
>>> proposed earlier. Con: migrating users list twice = more irritating to
>>> users.
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Andy,
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> 
>>>> From: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>
>>>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <
>> [email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>> Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:18 AM
>>>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>>>> 
>>>>> This is great.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Quick question about mailing lists: Spark also has a
>>>>> spark-users<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/spark-users>
>>>>> google
>>>>> group. Can we also get a [email protected] mailing list to have
>> somewhere
>>>>> to migrate that group? Do I need to create an infra issue for this?
>>>> 
>>>> OK, cool yeah I think I requested commits and dev as lists earlier, but
>>>> didn't request a user one. To request a new list, you go here:
>>>> 
>>>> https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Did you request a list yet? Should i?
>>>> 
>>>> (BTW sorry about the delay in responding was at a DARPA meeting all
>> week in
>>>> DC an am just back in California now catching up on everything).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, we should discuss a strategy, and timeline for migrating the
>> mailing
>>>>> lists over to the new ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As far as a strategy, here are the steps I can think of that will help
>>>>> make
>>>>> for a smooth transition:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Request users list on apache infra (done)
>>>>> 2. Pick a day/time for the switch (how about July 1, assuming
>>>>> [email protected] is set up by then)
>>>>> 3. At Switch time:
>>>>>    1. Make announcements on the dev and users mailing lists with links
>>>>>    to the new lists, instructions on how to subscribe, and a note
>>>>> saying all
>>>>>    conversations are moving over to that list.
>>>>>    2. Update the website with links to the new lists
>>>>>    3. Enable an auto responders on those lists with pointers to the
>> new
>>>>>    apache lists
>>>> 
>>>> Perfect! That's correct Andy.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> CC'ing [email protected]: our first email to the dev list! :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Henry Saputra <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:51 PM
>>>>>> To: jpluser <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur Dave
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>,
>> Haoyuan
>>>>>> Li
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Shivaram Venkataraman <[email protected]>, Mosharaf
>> Chowdhury
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Charles Reiss <[email protected]
>>> ,
>>>>>> Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>,
>> Ryan
>>>>>> LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya
>>>>>> <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>> Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman
>>>>>> <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang <[email protected]
>>> ,
>>>>>> Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Sean McNamara <
>> [email protected]
>>>>> ,
>>>>>> "Ramirez, Paul M (398J)" <[email protected]>, Roman
>>>> Shaposhnik
>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Suresh Marru <[email protected]>, "Hart, Andrew F
>>>>>> (398J)" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for driving this forward Chris, awesome as usual! =)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The mailing lists are ready:
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You can subscribe by sending email to:
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> [email protected]  -> This is moderated
>> and
>>>>>>> only Sparks' committers, PPMC could subscribe to it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hopefully we could start communicating using the dev@ list starting
>>>>>> next
>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For those new to ASF, welcome! =)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J)
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just to double check: does everyone have an Apache Individual
>>>>>>> Contributor License Agreement (ICLA) on file? If you don't please
>>>>>>> head over to:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please fill that out and then submit to [email protected]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'll make sure that everyone's account gets created and that
>>>>>>> karma for the Git repo is set up based on that, working with
>>>>>>> infra. I or any of the other mentors can help with this too.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:16 PM
>>>>>>> To: jpluser <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur Dave
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>,
>> Haoyuan
>>>>>> Li
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Reynold
>>>>>>> Xin <[email protected]>, Shivaram Venkataraman
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mosharaf Chowdhury
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Charles Reiss <[email protected]
>>> ,
>>>>>>> Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>,
>>>> Ryan
>>>>>>> LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya
>>>>>> <[email protected]
>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>> Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>> Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman
>>>>>> <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang <
>> [email protected]
>>>>> ,
>>>>>>> Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Sean McNamara <
>> [email protected]
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Subject: Apache Spark podling: Created!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Until our mailing lists are created, will have to just reply all
>>>>>>>> to this list :)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apache Spark (incubating) now is created! See:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://s.apache.org/yRh
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yay! Thanks for the support in getting this started! I've gone
>>>>>>>> ahead and filed the requisite INFRA tasks:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6417
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> per:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You can follow the bootstrap process at INFRA-6417, by
>>>>>>>> putting yourself on the watch list for the issue. Now
>>>>>>>> I'll work with infra@ to get everything set up in terms of
>>>>>>>> mailing lists, etc, and then I'd appreciate everyone helping
>>>>>>>> in terms of letting folks know to migrate on the existing
>>>>>>>> email lists, and helping to work with me to get Git version
>>>>>>>> history transferred over, and to start moving the project
>>>>>>>> into the ASF.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One other thing, Matei: it would be really nice to do a
>>>>>>>> software grant on this:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From maybe AMPLab (and anyone else). Can you help take
>>>>>>>> the lead in getting that submitted to the Apache Secretary and
>>>>>>>> CC me?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks guys! Progress :)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Our first Incubator PMC report is due in July. I'll prod and
>>>>>>>> help put it together. Until then, time to start transitioning
>>>>>>>> and helping to get the project moved on over.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>> 

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