Hey Chris, I definitely understand that we need to move to Apache lists, and I think that's fine, but maybe one question -- is it possible to transform the *@spark.incubator.apache.org lists into *@spark.apache.org more seamlessly when we graduate? It's weird to ask users to move twice. If these could somehow become aliases that would be ideal.
In any case though, I think we'll have a gradual transition. I'd first move the dev list over, then the user one, and for a while I'd keep both and keep a notice on the Google group. I'm not sure how Google groups allow that but there must be a way. Matei On Jun 28, 2013, at 4:40 PM, "Mattmann, Chris A (398J)" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hey Reynold, > > I hear your pain - trust me I do - but at the same time it doesn't > make sense to half complete bringing the community over. Mailing list > conversation (especially user oriented ones) are one of the core > portions of open source communities at least in my experience. > > There are not really many hard requirements here at the ASF -- there > are social norms and memes and old fuddy duddies like me who share > those memes and information with people to try and encourage open > source best practice, while at the same time trying not to disturb > all the awesomeness going on that you guys are leading. > > With that, how many users are we talking about on the user mailing > list at this point? Can you give me an exact count? > > I'm willing to spend the time to get people migrated now. Then, > migrating later from [email protected] to > [email protected] > will be really less of a hassle and a lot less difficult since we > are really moving from ezmlm to ezmlm. Also with the $podling.i.a.o > namespace I think even now we can use spark.apache.org (*think*) > which in turn could cause even less hassle later. In addition, like > I said, when we graduate to TLP I'll also be happy to contribute > time towards making the migration as seamless as possible. > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Senior Computer Scientist > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > Email: [email protected] > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reynold Xin <[email protected]> > Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:08 PM > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Cc: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: > Created!) > >> Hi Chris, >> >> There are a lot of user preferences set by them (e.g. individual emails vs >> batch) that wouldn't work when you just "import". If user list is not an >> absolute requirement for the incubator, it would make sense to delay >> the migration of user lists until we are graduating to a TLP. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi Andy et al., >>> >>> Why don't we just collect the current subscribers to the Google Group, >>> get them to me, and I'll subscribe them to the ASF new lists? I'm happy >>> to create a user list here at the ASF for the project, and to migrate >>> the users. Then all they would have to do is remember to use the new >>> email when addressing. A change, yes, I know, but still a minimal one. >>> >>> That OK? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Chris >>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>> Senior Computer Scientist >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>> Email: [email protected] >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]> >>> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:04 PM >>> To: jpluser <[email protected]> >>> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, >>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: >>> Created!) >>> >>>> + [email protected] to loop in those who haven't >>>> subscribed to [email protected] yet, (also because my emails are getting >>>> bounced by Apache's spam filters). >>>> >>>> I wanted to respond here in the conversation about the mailing list >>>> migration that was happening on the email thread called "Re: A wiki for >>>> Spark (on Apache infra)"... >>>> >>>> Assuming that we Apache requires us to migrate from google groups to >>>> lists on Apache infra, we might consider waiting to migrating the users >>>> list to apache infra until after we graduate to a TLP, so that we only >>>> have to migrate it once. >>>> >>>> >>>> Here's why. I assume with each list migration that requires subscribers >>>> to do work, we will lose some subscribers. If we ask them to migrate to >>>> an incubator user list now and then again to yet a different list when >>> we >>>> graduate to a TLP (which we hope to >>>> do fairly quickly), it seems like we will irritate and lose strictly >>>> more subscribers. >>>> >>>> >>>> This requirement to migrate infra twice as part of moving to Apache >>> seems >>>> a bit hard on communities. It also seems like a requirement that will >>> go >>>> away if the changes you are pushing for to the incubation process (i.e. >>>> podling TLPs) actually ever happen. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyway, I see our options as: >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Migrate only the dev list now (since this is a smaller core group >>> that >>>> is more likely to migrate with us) and wait to create an apache users >>>> list until we graduate and migrate from the users google group then. >>> Con: >>>> it's confusing to have user and dev >>>> lists on different infra. >>>> >>>> 2. Move the users list now, in which case we go with the migration >>> plan I >>>> proposed earlier. Con: migrating users list twice = more irritating to >>>> users. >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Andy, >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>> From: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]> >>>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:18 AM >>>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created! >>>> >>>>> This is great. >>>>> >>>>> Quick question about mailing lists: Spark also has a >>>>> spark-users<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/spark-users> >>>>> google >>>>> group. Can we also get a [email protected] mailing list to have >>> somewhere >>>>> to migrate that group? Do I need to create an infra issue for this? >>>> >>>> OK, cool yeah I think I requested commits and dev as lists earlier, but >>>> didn't request a user one. To request a new list, you go here: >>>> >>>> https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator >>>> >>>> >>>> Did you request a list yet? Should i? >>>> >>>> (BTW sorry about the delay in responding was at a DARPA meeting all >>> week >>>> in >>>> DC an am just back in California now catching up on everything). >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, we should discuss a strategy, and timeline for migrating the >>>>> mailing >>>>> lists over to the new ones. >>>>> >>>>> As far as a strategy, here are the steps I can think of that will help >>>>> make >>>>> for a smooth transition: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Request users list on apache infra (done) >>>>> 2. Pick a day/time for the switch (how about July 1, assuming >>>>> [email protected] is set up by then) >>>>> 3. At Switch time: >>>>> 1. Make announcements on the dev and users mailing lists with >>> links >>>>> to the new lists, instructions on how to subscribe, and a note >>>>> saying all >>>>> conversations are moving over to that list. >>>>> 2. Update the website with links to the new lists >>>>> 3. Enable an auto responders on those lists with pointers to the >>>>> new >>>>> apache lists >>>> >>>> Perfect! That's correct Andy. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>>> Senior Computer Scientist >>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> CC'ing [email protected]: our first email to the dev list! :) >>>>>> >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist >>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Henry Saputra <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:51 PM >>>>>> To: jpluser <[email protected]> >>>>>> Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur Dave >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>, >>> Haoyuan >>>>>> Li >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Shivaram Venkataraman <[email protected]>, Mosharaf >>> Chowdhury >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Charles Reiss >>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>, >>> Ryan >>>>>> LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya >>>>>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Thomas >>>>>> Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman >>>>>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang >>> <[email protected] >>>> , >>>>>> Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Sean McNamara >>>>>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>> "Ramirez, Paul M (398J)" <[email protected]>, Roman >>>>>> Shaposhnik >>>>>> <[email protected]>, Suresh Marru <[email protected]>, "Hart, Andrew F >>>>>> (398J)" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created! >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for driving this forward Chris, awesome as usual! =) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The mailing lists are ready: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can subscribe by sending email to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> [email protected] -> This is moderated >>> and >>>>>>> only Sparks' committers, PPMC could subscribe to it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hopefully we could start communicating using the dev@ list starting >>>>>> next >>>>>>> week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For those new to ASF, welcome! =) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Henry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just to double check: does everyone have an Apache Individual >>>>>>> Contributor License Agreement (ICLA) on file? If you don't please >>>>>>> head over to: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please fill that out and then submit to >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll make sure that everyone's account gets created and that >>>>>>> karma for the Git repo is set up based on that, working with >>>>>>> infra. I or any of the other mentors can help with this too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist >>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>>>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:16 PM >>>>>>> To: jpluser <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur >>> Dave >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>, >>> Haoyuan >>>>>> Li >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Reynold >>>>>>> Xin <[email protected]>, Shivaram Venkataraman >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mosharaf Chowdhury >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Charles Reiss >>> <[email protected] >>>> , >>>>>>> Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Ryan >>>>>>> LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya >>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>> , >>>>>>> Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>, >>>>>> Thomas >>>>>>> Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman >>>>>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>>> Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang >>>>>> <[email protected]>, >>>>>>> Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath >>>>>>> <[email protected]>, Sean McNamara >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Apache Spark podling: Created! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Everyone, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Until our mailing lists are created, will have to just reply all >>>>>>>> to this list :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apache Spark (incubating) now is created! See: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://s.apache.org/yRh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yay! Thanks for the support in getting this started! I've gone >>>>>>>> ahead and filed the requisite INFRA tasks: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6417 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> per: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can follow the bootstrap process at INFRA-6417, by >>>>>>>> putting yourself on the watch list for the issue. Now >>>>>>>> I'll work with infra@ to get everything set up in terms of >>>>>>>> mailing lists, etc, and then I'd appreciate everyone helping >>>>>>>> in terms of letting folks know to migrate on the existing >>>>>>>> email lists, and helping to work with me to get Git version >>>>>>>> history transferred over, and to start moving the project >>>>>>>> into the ASF. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One other thing, Matei: it would be really nice to do a >>>>>>>> software grant on this: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From maybe AMPLab (and anyone else). Can you help take >>>>>>>> the lead in getting that submitted to the Apache Secretary and >>>>>>>> CC me? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks guys! Progress :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our first Incubator PMC report is due in July. I'll prod and >>>>>>>> help put it together. Until then, time to start transitioning >>>>>>>> and helping to get the project moved on over. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist >>>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>>>>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >
