The problem, Michael, is that you just don't listen when some offers you advice. Your standard response to every criticism is "you don't understand". As I, and others, have pointed out, you usually put it in far more inflammatory terms than that.
It's just possible, that if several people "don't understand", that you're not doing a very code job of explaining yourself. Expressing frustration and telling everybody they don't know what they are doing is not a good way to get your message across. Regarding your confusion, there are no "standards" on this list, except those imposed by the list members (including you). If enough people think someone is out of line, then they will express that opinion. If people object to my use of the description "childish" in relation to your behaviour, then they will let me know. However, *you* made it necessary to comment on your behaviour rather than your code by your personally directed comments. In order to explain why those comments were causing offence, I had to characterize the comments in a way that would make it clear. I would defend the description of childish in the case where someone responds to valid technical criticisms with frustration and "you don't understand" as being similar to the behaviour of a child who does not get their own way. I'd really like to draw a line under this now. If you can accept that the Wiki is a community resource, tone down the opinions (about people) and focus on the code and I'm sure we'll all get along fine. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Michael McGrady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: September 24, 2004 11:09 AM To: Struts Developers List Subject: Re: Struts Wiki Etiquette: Niall's Help Thanks for your warning, Steve. I will certainly do everything to remain courteous. If I fail, I will be more disappointed than anyone else. I note, Steve, that you call my comments "childish" and implied that they were neither "sensible" nor "professional" whereas I said that someone's grasp of an area seemed to be suspect and that their presentation was not consistent with the "look and feel" on the page. I don't really mind if you call me childish or unprofessional, because your opinions about me are none of my business. They are strictly your business. But, I have to tell you that I am totally confused about what the standard is here and what I have done wrong except to offer a critique of a committer which I don't take to be personal at all. I do think that "childish" is rather personal and seemingly inconsistent with your stated intentions in this email. I don't mind it, as I said. I just want you to know it is confusing. It seems to suggest that there are different standards for committers and non-committers. I can tell you this: I have no animosity towards anyone on this list. I was merely trying to build a wiki page with some new ideas on it and have had a lot of difficulty doing that. I appreciate everyones' efforts. But, generally speaking, I do stand up for myself. I hope that is okay. That is what I am doing now. I don't see where I have taken "personal offence". I really don't. I am merely trying to find a space to present a fairly complex idea and to do that I have to have a start. As I try to start, I keep getting infusions of old ideas into the middle of it and have tried to find a way to accommodate that. So far, I have been unsuccessful. Michael McGrady Steve Raeburn wrote: >Michael, >You seem hell bent on taking personal offence at anything and anybody that >disagrees with you. > >*I* have interpreted your comments as being personally directed at Niall >(and others). It's possible that you genuinely did not mean to cause >offence - it's very difficult to communicate effectively over email - but >it's not just a case of Niall being over-sensitive. > >Given that you have been told that your comments have caused offence, I hope >you will adjust your style to avoid making personal references. You are free >to do and say whatever you like on your own website, but I would expect a >little more courtesy on the Struts Wiki and mailing lists. > >For example, rather than engaging in a sensible, professional, discussion >about the merits of your idea, you resort to childish comments like: > >"Your grasp of this particular area on Struts seems to me to be suspect and >you seem to have no sense of the look and feel of this wiki page." > >>From what I have read, I would have said that description applies less to >Niall and more to yourself. > >For the record, I was interested at first in your dispatch action idea but I >saw a few problems with it. Because of your attitude, I am not prepared to >waste any of my time discussing it with you. > >So far, you have impugned the technical abilities and knowledge of at least >four of the Struts committers. Can I humbly suggest that it's unlikely that >you are the only one who has a perfect understanding of Struts and that we >are all idiots? > >Steve > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
