On Thu, May 7, 2026 at 12:42 PM Dan Horák <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 7 May 2026 17:23:29 +0100
> Daniel P. Berrangé <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 07, 2026 at 12:00:37PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > On Thu, May 7, 2026 at 11:44 AM Michael Catanzaro <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Wow. :(
> > > >
> > > > This week's total outage on s390x is an unusual occurrence, and we
> shouldn't need to change anything based on this. I'm more concerned with
> *persistent* capacity issues. We have a ticket
> https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/13141 but I think it
> understates the severity of the problem. It's normal for my heavybuilder
> channel builds to wait up to two days before an s390x build even *starts*.
> That significantly delays Fedora updates for all architectures.
> > > >
> > > > s390x has been a problem for too long, and it's time to do something
> about it. I was planning to make almost the same proposal as Hans, except I
> don't think the problems with ppc64le are nearly as serious as the problems
> with s390x. Our ppc64le builders are too slow relative to other
> architectures, and that's a problem, but they are not *severely* slow like
> the s390x builders. I think doubling the ppc64le builders would be
> adequate, whereas s390x needs to be quadrupled or more. Also, packages
> rarely fail to build only on ppc64le -- if it fails there, it's very likely
> going to fail on at least one other architecture as well -- whereas it's
> common for builds to fail only on s390x due to endianness issues. So it's
> really only s390x that is causing problems for Fedora.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, our Workstation usage stats
> https://forge.fedoraproject.org/workstation/tickets/issues/500#issuecomment-361654
> indicate we have almost no users on ppc64le, so while ppc64le is not
> causing problems, I'd argue it's not worth building anymore on that basis
> alone. That should move to secondary infrastructure.
> > > >
> > > > Proposal: future stable Fedoras will not be built for s390x or
> ppc64le beginning with Fedora 45, leaving these architectures enabled in
> rawhide and ELN only. That should eventually reduce load on the builders
> when Fedora 43 and Fedora 44 reach EOL, by reducing the number of total
> builds. It also allows Red Hat 3 months to improve capacity before Fedora
> 45 is branched if Red Hat doesn't like this plan. If that's still not
> enough to resolve our capacity problems, then in February next year
> (arbitrarily selected to coincide with F46 branching) we should turn off
> s390x in rawhide as well, leaving it only in ELN, so it will no longer
> inconvenience Fedora community members at all.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't think it'd be worth it to keep s390x at all for Fedora if we
> > > drop it from stable releases. It doesn't save packagers any time or
> > > effort, and if it's effectively never shipped, it's just not worth it
> > > to keep. We might as well drop it everywhere and have Red Hat only
> > > deal with it when RHEL is made. Or maybe RHEL will just drop s390x
> > > because everything will be too broken anyway. If there's a reliance on
> > > community support for s390x and no institutional support for it, we
> > > should just pull the plug entirely. Half-measures will just frustrate
> > > people even more.
> >
> > If rawhide build targets did drop s390x, presumably ELN could keep
> > s390x enabled, so Red Hat retains visibility of the state of s390x
> > builds prior to future RHEL branching.
>
> AFAIK ELN buildroot inherits from Rawhide buildroot, because that's how
> ELN deals with side tags ...
>
>
The reality is slightly more complicated[1] than "inherits from Rawhide
buildroot", but yes: we cannot build ELN on s390x without an s390x Rawhide.


[1]
https://sgallagh.wordpress.com/2026/05/07/sausage-factory-fedora-eln-rebuild-strategy-2026-edition/
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